Keith Cocker
Established Member
They were involved in Criminal Prosecutions. They do not prosecute Private Prosecutions as they are a Public body.
Breaking News: Post Office Scandal
- Thread starter Vulcan
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Stevekane
Established Member
I watched the PO investigator giving evidence on the news last night, it had a “I was only following orders” feel to it.,,I bet hes going to be a very popular bloke around where he lives after this!
Keith Cocker
Established Member
One shouldn’t type cast people but what sort of person turns up to an inquiry wearing a black shirt when he’s been accused of behaving in a heavy handed way like a “mafia boss”. He looked like Reggie Kray
If that was the case then it would be simple to follow the audit trail and either reconcile the disputed figures or confirm them, and along the way you would be able to highlight and track down any potential bugs.
The fact that it would appear that Fujitsu had a room full of folks whose job it was to 'adjust' the data would indicate that perhaps it didn't have key-loggers, re-do logs or anything to ensure transactional integrity, or that perhaps those operating it didn't know how to, or were poorly trained or they didn't have the nouse to ask the right questions of those who did understand how to....
All of which would indicate that the system/service that Fujitsu had produced was not fit-for-purpose, however it would appear that the customer - The Post Office either didn't recognise this, or perhaps didn't want to...
At least the Krays was gentlemen gangsters. They always shook your hand first and apologised before duffing you up and taking your money. Those days are long gone.One shouldn’t type cast people but what sort of person turns up to an inquiry wearing a black shirt when he’s been accused of behaving in a heavy handed way like a “mafia boss”. He looked like Reggie Kray
The police, the government, the banks, you, me are being asked to improve and raise our standards on a daily basis.
When was the last time crooks and wrong 'uns were told to improve and clean their act up? I'm that old I can't remember the last time that happened. But I know it did.
It's as if society has given up and rejoices in the fact there are some who simply don't have the capacity to behave. They're more likely to get a reward for their actions than receive any punishment. As happened here.
Mikebart
Established Member
Not defending the PO investigator, but the word “scapegoat “ springs to mind and yes in some situations he was following orders.
His actions were being investigated by an expert QC.
I really can’t believe that subsequent convictions were based solely on his evidence.
How he actually carried out his job is a different issue with his rudeness and attitude.What type of person would really want to do that sort of job.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Yes. But not simple.
The James Christie blog is really useful and saves me reading the 300+ page inquiry report!
No software is bug free. You try to iron out as many bugs as possible during various testing phases but it's inevitable that errors come to light after you've gone live.
What's important is how you deal with post-live errors.
It needs transparency and honesty between the customer (PO) and the supplier (Fujitsu). It appears that the PO devolved way too much control to Fujitsu.
Someone from the PO should have been looking closely at the reported issues and ensuring Fujitsu were dealing with them with the appropriate urgency and focus.
They trusted the software way too much and aggressively prosecuted the sub-postmasters.
The unbelievable incompetence highlighted in the blog defies logic.
'The usual practice was to charge a sub-postmaster with theft and false accounting, even if the suspect had flagged up a problem with the accounts and there was no evidence that he or she had benefitted from a theft, or even committed one'
The other unbelievable thing is the daily use by IT Support of a super user account that could adjust accounts.
There must be many people at Fujitsu and the PO who seriously failed to do their job properly and in some cases guilty of a cover up. It's going to be a complex prosecution is justice is to be properly served.
I suspect compensation will be paid to victims and those responsible for the debacle will escape prosecution.
No software is bug free. You try to iron out as many bugs as possible during various testing phases but it's inevitable that errors come to light after you've gone live.
What's important is how you deal with post-live errors.
It needs transparency and honesty between the customer (PO) and the supplier (Fujitsu). It appears that the PO devolved way too much control to Fujitsu.
Someone from the PO should have been looking closely at the reported issues and ensuring Fujitsu were dealing with them with the appropriate urgency and focus.
They trusted the software way too much and aggressively prosecuted the sub-postmasters.
The unbelievable incompetence highlighted in the blog defies logic.
'The usual practice was to charge a sub-postmaster with theft and false accounting, even if the suspect had flagged up a problem with the accounts and there was no evidence that he or she had benefitted from a theft, or even committed one'
The other unbelievable thing is the daily use by IT Support of a super user account that could adjust accounts.
There must be many people at Fujitsu and the PO who seriously failed to do their job properly and in some cases guilty of a cover up. It's going to be a complex prosecution is justice is to be properly served.
I suspect compensation will be paid to victims and those responsible for the debacle will escape prosecution.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
And "investigators" sent in should have been exactly that, and skilled and impartial.
The geezer on the ropes yesterday had more in common with a typical bailiff - guilt assumed in advance and sent in to smash and grab. "Just doing his job" in the notorious old fashioned way.
I dont think (As yet) we can use the term scapegoat. Because what we are seeing is evidence being given by a few people thus far and when its all over, if there are any facing criminal charges, then perhaps we shall see people like this 'investigator' being one of those facing them.
People are using scapegoat because frankly;y this guy came across as a complete silly person. From his whole testimony it was clear, despite constantly denying it, he could see for himself his actions were wrong, that he showed little insight at the time.
The whole - "I was just following orders" has never worked as a defence.
If he is prosecuted criminally,t hen he is the architect of his own undoing.
This whole debacle is shining a spotlight on institutional back-scratching. If the investigating police had done their job and 'followed the money,' they would have quickly discovered that the trail ran dry as soon the money disappeared. Did anyone even ask where were they all hiding it or what they were spending it on?
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Always good to their old mum's!
And always the first place the police visited when they were on the lamb.
Agreed Dense and inert until someone competent switch's them on.
Cozzer
Established Member
Yes, as someone has already pointed out, deciding to turn up yesterday wearing a black shirt wasn't perhaps the best idea!
Or, perhaps,"defiance"?
He's still a Post Office employee, apparently.
Or, perhaps,"defiance"?
He's still a Post Office employee, apparently.
Very hard to fight a legal case against a massive organisation with 'unlimited resources'. Plus they had all the evidence under their control.
Maybe the prosecutors knew the evidence for theft was flimsy hence they were quick to offer a lighter sentence for a guilty plea to false accounting.
Pretty much strongarmed into pleading guilty for a crime you didn't commit.
Cant begin to imagine the impact that has on an individual in a trusted position.
One would have thought that a simple comparison of the pre horizon prosecutions and the prosecutions, post Horizon, would have indicated that something was amiss,
The Horizon system provided data that uncovered the alleged crimes. Impossible to find in the old paper system without a full, costly audit.
Unfortunately they believed what the system told them. If your job is to root out fraud you'll want to believe the data and less likely to question it.
You'd have thought the alarm bells would have been ringing in the department that vets new sub-postmasters.
Ah yes but humans are prone to making mistakes, better let AI do it much safer they don't make mistakes . Anyway got to go flying pig hunting starts today
