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chris_d
Established Member
Hi Dibs,
Many thanks for leading with such vigour! The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined to suggest that the fabricator(s) should drill, counter-sink and tap the holes for retaining the rings and supply the appropriate counter-sunk screws.
My reasoning for this is as follows:
1. If the end-user's router base aperture has a smaller diameter than that of the inner edge of the ring retention shoulder, then they cannot use a simple machine screw, spring washer and nut combination to retain the ring as these would interfere with the router base;
2. If we decide to work in stainless steel then the effort/tooling required to tap for the ring retention solution is off putting.
Hence, I suggest that if we go for S/S then the ring retention system should be delivered by the fabricator leaving only the router mounting holes to be drilled and counter-sunk by the end-user. If we go for aluminium or M/S then it is far more straight forward for the end-user to finalise the ring retention solution themselves.
Does this sound stupid?
Cheers,
C
P.S. Personally, I'd prefer a softer material (aluminium or M/S) and for the fabricator(s) to deliver the ring retention solution giving the least amount of initial effort for the end-user to get started but allowing the maximum margin for bodgeability in the future.
Many thanks for leading with such vigour! The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined to suggest that the fabricator(s) should drill, counter-sink and tap the holes for retaining the rings and supply the appropriate counter-sunk screws.
My reasoning for this is as follows:
1. If the end-user's router base aperture has a smaller diameter than that of the inner edge of the ring retention shoulder, then they cannot use a simple machine screw, spring washer and nut combination to retain the ring as these would interfere with the router base;
2. If we decide to work in stainless steel then the effort/tooling required to tap for the ring retention solution is off putting.
Hence, I suggest that if we go for S/S then the ring retention system should be delivered by the fabricator leaving only the router mounting holes to be drilled and counter-sunk by the end-user. If we go for aluminium or M/S then it is far more straight forward for the end-user to finalise the ring retention solution themselves.
Does this sound stupid?
Cheers,
C
P.S. Personally, I'd prefer a softer material (aluminium or M/S) and for the fabricator(s) to deliver the ring retention solution giving the least amount of initial effort for the end-user to get started but allowing the maximum margin for bodgeability in the future.
Lord Nibbo
Established Member
Depends on which type of stainless it is, so magnets might not work.wizer":2z8btnbe said:
Aled Dafis
Established Member
Lord Nibbo":3o48f3km said:
Even if you go for the 400 series of Stainless Steel eg 430 grade, it's quite a bit less magnetic that Mild steel, so magblocks etc. may not be as effective as you may have thought.
Cheers
Aled
Dibs-h
Established Member
Tom - yeah sorry mate, I was talking stainless.
The fabricators\cutters don't carry any 400 series stainless, so it would be a choice between 304, aluminium or mild steel. As someone has pointed out the beds of most of our machines are mild steel - I don't see a problem with that.
If we went for mild steel - then the reduction in cost i.e. <£9 would allow us to get the extra machining done for the rings, etc. and be back up to the same sort of cost as Stainless\Aluminium. There's no reason not to have the holes done in the rings as holes are likely to be around pence each.
Chris_d - if we went with the ring solution you propose then I suspect the screw holes in the plate for holding the rings would need to be a tad bit smaller than the ones in the rings, so once you thread - everything is ok? i.e. 5mm hole in the rings and 4mm in the plate. Probably time to get my tap & die set out and check. :wink:
If folks felt that we should have plastic rings then I can get a quote from one of the cutters that can do acrylic for a quote just for the rings. I suppose at this point we already have an idea of what stuff costs - so perhaps now is the time for those interested to say what they would and would not like.
Options are,
1. All aluminium, plate in 8mm and rings 4mm
2. All stainless, plate in 6mm and rings in 3mm
3. All mild steel, plate in 6mm (can be 8mm) and rings in 3mm (can be in 4mm),
4. Plate in mild steel and rings in plastic (or aluminium).
Time to vote folks!
Also if folks went for choices 3 or 4 or even 1, then would you wish to do your own drilling and tapping or want it done for you? If the majority went for do their own (for the few - it needs to be a few - who don't have the gear, I could do yours).
Also the size - so far we seem to have settled on 12"x9" (300x225).
I'm off work this coming week (doing workshop) so progress might be a little slow on this front and I may not be posting as frequently! :wink:
Edit: Option 3 probably would be easier to arrange - i.e. one supplier for both plates and rings. Having said that could you state your preferred option, but if another option is also acceptable (i.e. secondary option) that would make it easier to gauge what's a goer and what's not. There's no reason why the plate could not be 306x229.
The fabricators\cutters don't carry any 400 series stainless, so it would be a choice between 304, aluminium or mild steel. As someone has pointed out the beds of most of our machines are mild steel - I don't see a problem with that.
If we went for mild steel - then the reduction in cost i.e. <£9 would allow us to get the extra machining done for the rings, etc. and be back up to the same sort of cost as Stainless\Aluminium. There's no reason not to have the holes done in the rings as holes are likely to be around pence each.
Chris_d - if we went with the ring solution you propose then I suspect the screw holes in the plate for holding the rings would need to be a tad bit smaller than the ones in the rings, so once you thread - everything is ok? i.e. 5mm hole in the rings and 4mm in the plate. Probably time to get my tap & die set out and check. :wink:
If folks felt that we should have plastic rings then I can get a quote from one of the cutters that can do acrylic for a quote just for the rings. I suppose at this point we already have an idea of what stuff costs - so perhaps now is the time for those interested to say what they would and would not like.
Options are,
1. All aluminium, plate in 8mm and rings 4mm
2. All stainless, plate in 6mm and rings in 3mm
3. All mild steel, plate in 6mm (can be 8mm) and rings in 3mm (can be in 4mm),
4. Plate in mild steel and rings in plastic (or aluminium).
Time to vote folks!
Also if folks went for choices 3 or 4 or even 1, then would you wish to do your own drilling and tapping or want it done for you? If the majority went for do their own (for the few - it needs to be a few - who don't have the gear, I could do yours).
Also the size - so far we seem to have settled on 12"x9" (300x225).
I'm off work this coming week (doing workshop) so progress might be a little slow on this front and I may not be posting as frequently! :wink:
Edit: Option 3 probably would be easier to arrange - i.e. one supplier for both plates and rings. Having said that could you state your preferred option, but if another option is also acceptable (i.e. secondary option) that would make it easier to gauge what's a goer and what's not. There's no reason why the plate could not be 306x229.
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
Dibs-h":3bv346b6 said:
I would like 2 plates Option 4 and can tap my own metric threads
FWIW 12"x9" ls closer to 306mm X 229mm.
chris_d
Established Member
I'm voting for option 3 please and I'm agnostic between 6/3 or 8/4 stock. Given mild steel then I'm happy to drill, counter-sink and tap myself.
Cheers,
C
Cheers,
C
wobblycogs
Established Member
Option 3 please. I would prefer 8/4 if possible as I intend to try making up additional plastic rings on the lathe, I think 4mm would probably be that bit easier to work with.
I have very limited experience drilling metal and none tapping a thread. Willing to learn though.
Thanks dibs, love the workshop BTW good luck with it.
I have very limited experience drilling metal and none tapping a thread. Willing to learn though.
Thanks dibs, love the workshop BTW good luck with it.
skywriter
Member
Option 3, 8/4
Drilled and tapped if you could please, still unsure as to what router to get for the new plate, so advice and recommendations would help, currently leaning towards Trend T11.
Many thanks for doing this for us, it's very much appreciated.
Adrian
Drilled and tapped if you could please, still unsure as to what router to get for the new plate, so advice and recommendations would help, currently leaning towards Trend T11.
Many thanks for doing this for us, it's very much appreciated.
Adrian
RobertMP
Established Member
I've been trying to help rather than thinking of buying one myself but I could be tempted by a mild steel plate with a shoulder machined inside the main hole to take 3mm thick inserts.
Still think 2 x 10g plates laminated together would be the easy way and avoid machining a shoulder but I'll go with the majority.
3mm inserts means I can easily make more myself if needed. Not fussed what material the inserts are made from as I would screw fix them in place and they would never get near a cutter.
Drilling and threading holes in mild steel is easy so I wouldn't need pre drilled holes.
One last thought... this is going to be heavy. will the postage cost kill the deal?
Still think 2 x 10g plates laminated together would be the easy way and avoid machining a shoulder but I'll go with the majority.
3mm inserts means I can easily make more myself if needed. Not fussed what material the inserts are made from as I would screw fix them in place and they would never get near a cutter.
Drilling and threading holes in mild steel is easy so I wouldn't need pre drilled holes.
One last thought... this is going to be heavy. will the postage cost kill the deal?
wizer
Established Member
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Skywriter. The router depends on your budget. The Triton TRA001 (the larger one) is a favourite but is a bit old now. I intend to get a Freud 2000 but they are quite expensive. Any router will do to be honest. It just depends on your budget.
wobblycogs
Established Member
The package, 8mm option, will weigh aroung 4.5kg I think (about 528cm3 mild steel at 7.85g/cm3). The cheapest non account holder Parcel Force delivery option is £12.50. I had an account with City Link a couple of years ago and I know that they offer much better rates to account holds, IIRC it was a flat £5 under 10kg anywhere in the UK.
Failing that could we organize pick-ups? I'd be happy to hold onto plates for people till they can collect them.
Failing that could we organize pick-ups? I'd be happy to hold onto plates for people till they can collect them.
Dibs-h
Established Member
The only person who wouldn't pay delivery is paininthe - as he's down the road so to speak.
I suspect the postage would be the same for 1 plate or 2 - so could send multiples, if some of you are relatively close to each other. I'll try and work out a weight and see what the realistic P&P is likely to be.
Option 3 - i.e. mild steel seems to be the front runner.
Anyways - off to have a cuppa and on with the 'shop. Will check back in later this aft.
I suspect the postage would be the same for 1 plate or 2 - so could send multiples, if some of you are relatively close to each other. I'll try and work out a weight and see what the realistic P&P is likely to be.
Option 3 - i.e. mild steel seems to be the front runner.
Anyways - off to have a cuppa and on with the 'shop. Will check back in later this aft.
crazylilting
Established Member
I"m happy with either options of 3 and 4 depending on what is more popular. Thanks for clarification on the size by the way. 8 mm sounds better as well. Wow sounds like we are getting somewhere. A pretty hard thing to organize with so many people involved, Good job. I thought this might of ended up a lot more problems.
I've decided to only go with three, i hope that is ok. I don't have the room for one of my ideas... Or enough routers to go around. I don't want to mount them all either. It's such a pain when i have to do something free hand.
I've decided to only go with three, i hope that is ok. I don't have the room for one of my ideas... Or enough routers to go around. I don't want to mount them all either. It's such a pain when i have to do something free hand.
Aled Dafis
Established Member
Hi, I was thinking about this in bed last night.
If I was designing this (and I'm not, so please feel free to ignore my ideas if you wish) i'd get the shoulder milled about 12mm wide (10mm would also be fine) and slightly deeper than the insert (say 4.2mm +-0.1mm) so that the inserts can be shimed up flush with the table using whatever you have convenient, fag papers are always good. As a reference, normal writing paper is around 0.1mm thick.
As regards to holding the inserts in place, I'd drill (or laser) 3 or 4 equispaced 8mm holes in the shoulder, and superglue some 8mm rare earth magnets in the holes, these magnets will have plenty of holding power to hold the inserts securely.
Cheers
Aled
If I was designing this (and I'm not, so please feel free to ignore my ideas if you wish) i'd get the shoulder milled about 12mm wide (10mm would also be fine) and slightly deeper than the insert (say 4.2mm +-0.1mm) so that the inserts can be shimed up flush with the table using whatever you have convenient, fag papers are always good. As a reference, normal writing paper is around 0.1mm thick.
As regards to holding the inserts in place, I'd drill (or laser) 3 or 4 equispaced 8mm holes in the shoulder, and superglue some 8mm rare earth magnets in the holes, these magnets will have plenty of holding power to hold the inserts securely.
Cheers
Aled
