What is David Charlesworth using?

[Jacob]

......... As to the technique I teach, personally I'd say it falls into what I'd call 'The Sharp'n'Go' bracket. Slainte.

:lol:
Thinking of a name for my technique, er "The stop messing about and get some work done instead" technique?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Say one is widening a mortise by paring, be it for whatever silly or not reason....
Paring with a fresh edge chisel, in the direction of the grain to the end of the mortise...no bother!
The problem arises whilst getting close to the other end and you cant cut in the direction of the grain, but you have to cut against it to get to the other end of the mortise...
You can work directly crossgrain 90 degrees, but I often find it will still tear out a bit...
One way would be to combine 90 degree crossgrain, with a slicing cut pulling it towards the grain direction.
The chisel needs to be super sharp for that invisible joint....
Tom

Tom, I think the last two words in your quotation above just about 'cover' it regarding visible tearing, i.e., it's not visible because it's inside the mortice, so I don't really understand the problem. M&Ts are generally pretty forgiving joints and their structural integrity is good or better as long as their execution is reasonable, and I've seen some pretty wacky looking M&Ts in antiques and old stuff I've worked on that were still holding together well enough to be very difficult to disassemble. A bit of tearout or ragged grain inside a mortice doesn't seem to me to be anything to worry about, although I'm sure there may be those that might wish to disagree arguing that perfect smoothness and fit to within a few microns between tenon face and mortice cheek are essential qualities. That'll be precision engineer types that don't really understand wood that'll make those arguments, ha, ha. I once worked with a precision engineer (retired navy) who was retraining as a high end craft woodworker - he was a bloody nightmare chasing after a couple of thou all over the place. He was hopelessly slow and I think he gave up in the end; couldn't live with the 'sloppiness' required of a fine furniture maker, and I'd hate to think how his mind would have been blown if he'd worked with sloppy Joes (sic) type woodworkers such as joiners and carpenters who chase after a few mm or perhaps 12- 15 mm.

Sometimes it's not the sharpness of the tool that's the problem. A sharp tool will cut poorly if the wrong technique is used, so it's a matter in that case of adjusting technique.

Anyway, enough of the twaddle. Just so long as you can get your tools sharp enough to do what you want that's all that matters, and everyone else can do whatever they like to sharpen as long as it works, and there's lots of ways to do it. To some extent, Jacob does have a point because the world of sharpening has mushroomed in the last thirty or forty years. It used to be a pretty simple uncomplicated process which was pretty much all that was available. No-one thought much about it when I started, but there are so many methods and jigs out there nowadays that it doesn't surprise me people are a bit lost in the thickets of verbal diarrhoea out there on the subject. (A bit of a mixed metaphor to finish off, ha, ha.) Slainte.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Thinking of a name for my technique, er "The stop messing about and get some work done instead" technique?

Too wordy and sloppy: Dip'n'Flip sounds better. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Thinking of a name for my technique, er "The stop messing about and get some work done instead" technique?

Too wordy and sloppy: Dip'n'Flip sounds better. Slainte.

:lol:
Good one. Thanks for that. "Dip'n'Flip" it shall be!

 

[Jacob]

See, I said it before - Jacob simply has "last word it-is"!

Dip'n'Flip!

 

[custard]

Thinking of a name for my technique, er "The stop messing about and get some work done instead" technique?

What about the "buy an expensive linisher but pretend you don't use it to grind a primary bevel" technique?

 

[Jacob]

Thinking of a name for my technique, er "The stop messing about and get some work done instead" technique?

What about the "buy an expensive linisher but pretend you don't use it to grind a primary bevel" technique?

I do use it! I never said I didn't. Serious remedial grinding that is, not honing.
But if necessary I can do it on a stone if I'm caught out on site, which is the point I was making. NB I don't do 'primary, secondary' bevels, I just do bevels.
Actually my Pro edge has just become redundant - I've just bought the lathe I've always wanted (a huge Arundel Senior only £100 on ebay!). A sanding disc on the outboard end will do everything a Pro-edge will do.

 

[johnnyb]

Is the Arundel not the forerunner of the twin bed records. The senior having long bars.

 

[Jacob]

Probably, but it's totally superior to the Records. I had C3 which I've now replaced with the Arundel.
I had the J4 junior as my first ever lathe and I always regret having sold it, so am pleased to be back with the J4 Senior - which looks the same in photos but is bigger in every way throughout, and has a 1HP motor.

 

[Jacob]

Richard
I will continue to find it thoroughly interesting, until I find at least one proper example in video evidence, that is....
Which would be ....the time difference between sharpening a chisel which needs the primary bevel to be ground, and one which has a freshly ground edge.....

A new chisel with a freshly ground edge takes seconds to sharpen. It'll never be easier.
Modern sharpeners don't know this and instead get their knickers in a total twist and go in for something called "prepping a chisel". They have been known to spend hours spoiling whole sets of brand new expensive chisels. I suspect this nonsense came from an american pineapple who shall remain nameless!

 

[Ttrees]

How do wreck a chisel, apart from dubbing the long edges ?...
I might not strongly disagree with the idea of stropping of plane irons, both faces ... be it vintage irons, or the new harder types....
only because I have watched David Weaver and he is one of the only people who use the cap iron ...and you can see his very efficent sharpening "dip and flip" honing routine, and you can also see he knows his stones by previous threads, or by looking up his youtube channel...
David W , so that makes me think that he would notice the dulling of an edge quicker with stropping both faces as is his regularity when its time to sharpen.
I will say that the imediate pristene edge on a chisel is a very usefull tool for me, I use modern Stanley chisels...
and I cant achieve that durability yet with Autosol on a piece of iroko...(it could be contaminated, I should really test it by making some
experienents I suppose)

[Edit: I must confess that I wont strop the polished backs on my tools, only on the bevel, as I dont want to muddy the backs up.]


I tried to give my example previously which is the work I'm doing at the moment, it might not make sense to you guys and gals,
but surly there is a million examples where the ultimate edge is necessary...
Maybe I could do with one fancy steel 1" chisel for the job.... or tey heat treating one ...a blowtorch is probably about the same price...
I have a lot more essential things needed to spend my dough on first though like a nice crosscut blade for the TS

Gotta say I was delighted to see the dabate going as I thought the lathe talk was going to end the thread
Tom

 

[Ttrees]

(it could be contaminated, I should really test it by making some
experienents I suppose)

Are there any threads about chisel expermints on this 'ere forum I wonder?
being, that it is easy to spot a hand plane shaving that has been swiped by a damaged edge.
How would you replicate something similiar with a chisel in a real world, allbeit rare scenario

It might make a good thread ?

[EDIT] What I'm trying to say is....
That this level of excellence of a freshly sharpened plane iron goes dull instantly planing, and that dosen't matter atall.
Where it matters is when your chiseling and there is no tearout control like a plane does, "so is reliant on shear skill from the user."
How do we make an accurate test like which we can easily see, and repeat with the exact same consistency again and again?

No amount of hair shaving will show this, as the stropped edge will cut hair easier with less effort to routinely do this,
but the edge will dull faster.
There is a thread somewhere in all of this.


Tom

 

[Jacob]

Unless you are a carver you don't normally look for a fine finish from a chisel - but if that is what you want then you would have to freshen up the edge very frequently. This means "Sharpen & Go" or "Dip and Flip" etc etc - painstaking and obsessive modern sharpening methods would seriously slow down the job.
Much like a butcher with his steel, or a barber with a razor strop - it's got to be quick and easy - no "primary, secondary, micro bevels, flattening, polishing, ruler tricks" and similar nonsense.
Or they'd be queuing round the shop waiting for their fillet steaks whilst you fiddled with your LV Jig MKIII, flattened your waterstones and limbered up for the ruler trick. :lol:

 

[PAC1]

Unless you are a carver you don't normally look for a fine finish from a chisel - but if that is what you want then you would have to freshen up the edge very frequently. This means "Sharpen & Go" or "Dip and Flip" etc etc - painstaking and obsessive modern sharpening methods would seriously slow down the job.
Much like a butcher with his steel, or a barber with a razor strop - it's got to be quick and easy - no "primary, secondary, micro bevels, flattening, polishing, ruler tricks" and similar nonsense.
Or they'd be queuing round the shop waiting for their fillet steaks whilst you fiddled with your LV Jig MKIII, flattened your waterstones and limbered up for the ruler trick. :lol:

Your post is so disingenuous.
You are comparing a quick hone to freshen an edge with a conflation of:
1. Initial tool preparation
2. Regrinding
3. Sharpening
4. Honing
5. Refreshing
Your argument is that a quick hone is faster than having to do all five of these whatever method anyone uses and then add in a bit of snake oil salesmen bashing. They are simply not comparable
Please stop. As I have said the above is not helpful, misleading and very wearisome.

For the record my honing regimes are:
1. For everyday joinery I hone freehand but I always maintain a secondary bevel and never curved.
2. For high-class work and difficult grain where a repeatable edge and angle is necessary I use a honing jig and very fine stones as that gives repeatability and ultra sharp edges.
3. For carving tools I use a variety of methods, sones and leather strops with autosol to polish both faces to a mirror finish.
All are very quick, seconds for a chisel and a minute or so for a plane. The simple point is that different processes need different honing methods. People need to understand that the edge is not sharp unless you get a bur along the entire blade thereafter find the method that works for you and gets you back to woodworking quickly.

 

[Student]

How interesting. The OP asked a simple question which was answered in the first reply. He didn’t ask what the best sharpening method is or what other people do so why are there 92 other replies on this thread?

Mind you, Jacob is now becoming famous in our household. I mentioned to my wife that yet another topic had degenerated into a sharpening thread and she said “I suppose Jacob is involved”.

 

[Jacob]

..... People need to understand that the edge is not sharp unless you get a bur along the entire blade thereafter find the method that works for you and gets you back to woodworking quickly.

Agree. That and being able hold it at 30º are key. Everything else is secondary.
Agree - yes I am conflating your 5 steps. Only 5? :lol:
Initial tool prep? If it's new, and needs "prep", then it is faulty - just send it back.
You should try the rounded bevel - it makes life a lot easier.
A regular quick hone will account for your other steps in perpetuity, if done carefully, though as I think we both agree - extra polishing near the edge is good for fine finishing.
"Please stop"? I wouldn't dream of asking anybody to stop posting about simple practical stuff. But modern sharpening has a quasi religious air of ritual about it which attracts certain zealous types, of whom I am definitely not one. Blasphemy!

 

[Student]

Make that 94 replies!

 

[AES]

Sorry to be a smug "so-and-so", but I DID tell you - twice! Jacob "simply" suffers from "last word it-is"!

He's not interested in helping anyone in these threads but simply cannot stop himself from HAVING TO have the last word, rubbish or not. PLEASE, everyone DO NOT feed the "animal"!

I'm out of here!

 

[Jacob]

Sorry to be a smug "so-and-so", but I DID tell you - twice! Jacob "simply" suffers from "last word it-is"!

He's not interested in helping anyone in these threads but simply cannot stop himself from HAVING TO have the last word, rubbish or not. PLEASE, everyone DO NOT feed the "animal"!

I'm out of here!

If you haven't got anything interesting to say and if you don't want to read my posts, why bother posting at all?
As for helping other people - I've had 100s of comments from people who are glad to be free of daft sharpening procedures. Usually they've worked it out for themselves but quite a few have been persuaded by me. There's a lot of us at it, believe it or not.
Commenting is OK but trying to suppress ideas you don't agree with is not. This is a forum - if you don't like it don't use it.
Cue - AES posting another pointless and extremely boring comment. :roll:

 

[AES]

QUOTE: trying to suppress ideas you don't agree with is not UNQUOTE:

Now THAT really IS the pot calling the kettle grimy a-rse Jacob. As already said, I don't know enough to agree or disagree. But YOU really are THE one to talk about people posting comments that no one else wants to read or cares about!!!!

Oooops, my fault, I really am out of here, but please do carry on Jacob until you get what you want - to be the last and only man standing in this silly "discussion".