Queen Elizabeth has passed away.

[Jacob]

Since this thread has increasingly (which I appreciate was not intended by the original poster) become a bit of a slanging match (mainly at Phil which I find totally incorrect as there was nothing offensive in his supposedly offensive statement). I really think this clip from Novara Media probably belongs here.

Relates to the idiotic coverage by the BBC -

Once again, no offense to anyone (nor the Royals or anyone here or the lovers or the haters) and hopefully this thread will slowly become more and more civilised

Yes spot on! Novara Media are always on the ball.
I did try to send the thread off towards sharpening (guillotines) but there was no interest.

 

[selectortone]

BBC commentators wittering on inanely started to get on my nerves almost immediately. They have this ridiculous golden rule about not leaving 'dead air' (no one talking).

It was at its most ridiculous during the procession of the coffin from Balmoral to Edinburgh when the commentators just jabbered on and on mindlessly about nothing at all for hours. I turned the sound down. That whole broadcast could have been hugely more dignified with the drivel replaced with some suitably sombre music and the occasional subtitle.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I must admit I find Sarkar abhorrent, but she's right there.

 

[Jacob]

I must admit I find Sarkar abhorrent, .......

Yes she does irritate a certain type of elderly white male!
She's a very competent and intelligent journalist in fact.

 

[Spectric]

Relates to the idiotic coverage by the BBC

The BBC has been in decline for some time, there news coverage is to bounded and they have way to much coverage of anything involving a ball, being a highly regulated establishment I would think it is in their constitution to go into verbal diarrhoea mode at any major story involving the monarchy.

I don't think this fiasco will have done them any favours, I know quiet a few who have dropped BBC news for presenters on other channels that are not under some oath of toeing the line and can voice true free speech, in other words say it as it is and not try and wrap it up to dilute it.

 

[Jacob]

The BBC has been in decline for some time, there news coverage is to bounded and they have way to much coverage of anything involving a ball, being a highly regulated establishment I would think it is in their constitution to go into verbal diarrhoea mode at any major story involving the monarchy.

I don't think this fiasco will have done them any favours, I know quiet a few who have dropped BBC news for presenters on other channels that are not under some oath of toeing the line and can voice true free speech, in other words say it as it is and not try and wrap it up to dilute it.

We tend to watch Channel 4. The tories want to sell it off as it's obviously a bit too "centrist".

 

[deema]

I read with a wry smile the Vive la République, or the highlighting in a post of the great French Revolution that did away with the French Monarchy. Now, why let those tedious facts get in the way of a bit of good old chest beating? Probably because it killed huge numbers lasted a short time before putting into power a complete dictator; Napoleon who went in to kill countless more.
Coming a little further forward in time, we might also like to suggest the over throw of the Monarchy in Russia? Yet another despot placed into power and this time millions killed. Or perhaps China? Again millions killed as a result. Or perhaps Germany, or Austria? Hitler wasn’t such a bad chap was he? Let’s not forget Italy, Mussolini was exemplary……..Now I know, you may say these are a little extreme……let’s try Spain….any better, no, we got Franco before they went back to a monarch again. Gosh, the Spanish are wishing for the Franck era again I’m sure. Let’s not forget Iran, or indeed Iraq which again are later day Monarchy’s deposed of for far better systems, no, perhaps not. I know Afghanistan, oh, disaster there too.

Perhaps we should look at the colonies that shook of the imperial shackles. There is of course the USA, well that ended in civil war, and a now a hugely divided country that seems to elect presidents recently that are very polarising. Shall we say almost works?
India, that too ended really well, not only did the country tear itself in two, with millions being uprouted, it managed to start what was a civil war that killed millions has not ended today, Pakistan that was part of India, and India are still officially at war.

Now some have made the transition without a calamity, Finland is a good Example. However, most have resulted in untold blood shed and a worse situation than before.

 

[Spectric]

You cannot make a cake without breaking some eggs deema !

 

[Jacob]

I read with a wry smile the Vive la République, or the highlighting in a post of the great French Revolution that did away with the French Monarchy. Now, why let those tedious facts get in the way of a bit of good old chest beating? Probably because it killed huge numbers lasted a short time before putting into power a complete dictator; Napoleon who went in to kill countless more.
Coming a little further forward in time, we might also like to suggest the over throw of the Monarchy in Russia? Yet another despot placed into power and this time millions killed. Or perhaps China? Again millions killed as a result. Or perhaps Germany, or Austria? Hitler wasn’t such a bad chap was he? Let’s not forget Italy, Mussolini was exemplary……..Now I know, you may say these are a little extreme……let’s try Spain….any better, no, we got Franco before they went back to a monarch again. Gosh, the Spanish are wishing for the Franck era again I’m sure. Let’s not forget Iran, or indeed Iraq which again are later day Monarchy’s deposed of for far better systems, no, perhaps not. I know Afghanistan, oh, disaster there too.

Perhaps we should look at the colonies that shook of the imperial shackles. There is of course the USA, well that ended in civil war, and a now a hugely divided country that seems to elect presidents recently that are very polarising. Shall we say almost works?
India, that too ended really well, not only did the country tear itself in two, with millions being uprouted, it managed to start what was a civil war that killed millions has not ended today, Pakistan that was part of India, and India are still officially at war.

Now some have made the transition without a calamity, Finland is a good Example. However, most have resulted in untold blood shed and a worse situation than before.

Makes you wonder why all the colonies and the whole of the British Empire were so anxious to free themselves from British monarchical rule, when they were so obviously peaceful, kindly treated and cared for!
What remains of the British Commonwealth is also anxious to complete the process.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have read scores of elderly people writing over the years from various colonies saying they were more prosperous and peaceful under british rule. Zimbabwe for one is hardly a success. It doesn't make British rule right, of course.

 

[Jacob]

I have read scores of elderly people writing over the years from various colonies saying they were more prosperous and peaceful under british rule. Zimbabwe for one is hardly a success. It doesn't make British rule right, of course.

It wasn't a success under British rule either, unless you were a white land owner - who no doubt would remember it fondly.
Rhodes is remembered as one of the most brutal colonialists.

 

[D_W]

BBC commentators wittering on inanely started to get on my nerves almost immediately. They have this ridiculous golden rule about not leaving 'dead air' (no one talking).

It was at its most ridiculous during the procession of the coffin from Balmoral to Edinburgh when the commentators just jabbered on and on mindlessly about nothing at all for hours. I turned the sound down. That whole broadcast could have been hugely more dignified with the drivel replaced with some suitably sombre music and the occasional subtitle.

i think that rule is pretty universal. There's probably folks on here who don't love bill maher or adam carolla but I have seen both of them fall backwards in their chair when there is either dead air or someone is not getting to the point on air despite having their ankles nipped.

Both things are not that obvious to us as watchers, but patrolled heavily by producers or hosts.

I'm in agreement with what you're saying "could we have a format change for once and not worry about ratings or having every audience brought on board within 30 seconds of tuning in?"

 

[PhilipL]

My father's estate paid inheritance tax. It was a lot less in value than the Queen's estate. Why isn't it being paid in this instance?

Answers on a postcard, please.

 

[Spectric]

The monarchy are supposed to be there for the people, so the inheritance tax should be collected and used to offset the national debt to help his so called subjects.

Just think how many country estates went bust because they had to either remove the roof or pay the inheritance tax, perhaps they may be supposedly politically neutral but adopt the conservative stance of one rule for us and another for the rest of you.

 

[deema]

My father's estate paid inheritance tax. It was a lot less in value than the Queen's estate. Why isn't it being paid in this instance?

Answers on a postcard, please.

The reasons why are both well documented, logical and a consequence of the move of both power and to who taxes are now paid. Google is your friend.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Makes you wonder why all the colonies and the whole of the British Empire were so anxious to free themselves from British monarchical rule, when they were so obviously peaceful, kindly treated and cared for!
What remains of the British Commonwealth is also anxious to complete the process.

That all often resent their rulers (elected or not) does not with hindsight make "throwing off the yoke of mis-rule" a success.

• India - partition, war with Pakistan, millions dead
• Zimbabwe - transitioned from stable and relatively wealthy to corrupt, violent and impoverished under Mugabe
• Nigeria - now benefits from corruption, civil war, extreme poverty
• Uganda - a British protectorate which spawned Idi Amin
• Palestine - some good outcomes (Israel) and ongoing unresolved conflict
• Burma/Myanmar - the latest target (of many minorities) for government - Rohingas

This is but a small quick sample. British colonialism which sought to bring Bristish standards of education, law, societal order, administration, jobs, self-sufficiency etc to a large part of the world could be seen as truly enlightened.

That is was dominated by Victorian (not contemporary) values may today seem uncomfortable,. The suggestion that it was all in pursuit of profit and global reach is not without foundation. China is currently on a similar path following the US and Russia (who failed).

Would all those people (many generations) who suffered and sometimes died as a consequence of independence still endorse the actions of their leaders at the time. I suspect not - although "colonialism" would certainly have evolved with perhaps a far better outcome.

 

[redefined_cycles]

Interesting how you cite Palestine as one of the only successes cos of Israel. You do realise that eye witness reports (from both British and non-brits) prove it to be an apartheid state?

Also, regards destabilised countries. You do know that it's the British way. To help destabilise other people countries and cause infighting amongst others whilst they smile on by?

 

[deema]

The monarchy are supposed to be there for the people, so the inheritance tax should be collected and used to offset the national debt to help his so called subjects.

Just think how many country estates went bust because they had to either remove the roof or pay the inheritance tax, perhaps they may be supposedly politically neutral but adopt the conservative stance of one rule for us and another for the rest of you.

How far from the truth tales can wonder, it started in 1694, and has been modified and enhanced ever since. In 1794 a number of taxes were clumped together, as moneys needed to be raised to fund a war against a despot….Napolian! So, taxes were paid to the crown, to defend the people and country. So, basically if you apply taxes the to monarchy your asking them to pay for their own services is a nutshell. We the people transferred the power, the taxes and the responsibility to the elected Government, but the crown is still the leader of all the armed forces. Ie they lead us into battle.
Very simplified.

 

[Daniel2]

 

[Jacob]

T...... British colonialism which sought to bring Bristish standards of education, law, societal order, administration, jobs, self-sufficiency etc to a large part of the world could be seen as truly enlightened.
....

What amazing nonsense!
British colonialism sought to exploit the rest of the world for whatever it could get and in the process spread death and destruction, with total genocide in some parts.
How could anybody not be aware of this and still nurture a Boys' Own fantasy view of history?
What do you imagine the early explorers were after - spreading civilisation and enlightenment? Quite the opposite they were after wealth; gold, silver, slaves, land and treated native populations brutally.