Canabis farms

[Terry - Somerset]

Two options - properly enforce its illegality or legalise.

Current policing and judicial systems are largely ineffectual. Even with far more resources and assuming the police could arrest all involved, the courts would be incapable of dealing with the volume of offences and punishment would be an unlikely deterrent.

Perversely the more drug dealers removed from the streets the higher the street price would go (simple economics of supply and demand) and the greater the profit.

Alternative is to legalise. Control quality and access - some available through normal retail as alcohol and tobacco, some through prescription. Drug dealing industry will disappear as profits dry up and associated crime and violence diminish.

The support offered to those who have suffered through drug addiction is woeful. A long standing friend who has worked in the area for many years tells me that for each "client" it can take years to resolve issues and is frequently unsuccessful.

It is clear that current policy is utterly ineffectual and needs to change. Legalisation could make it much easier to identify those who need support much earlier (through prescription??) and perhaps before problems become too deep rooted and often insoluble.

 

[DrPhill]

Two options - properly enforce its illegality or legalise.

Third option- talk 'tough on crime', 'war on drugs' etc and do nothing to make it a reality.
This seems to be the optimum solution for criminals and politicians alike.

 

[TRITON]

You could put all this under the title of natural selection or survival of the fittest and that drugs are just natures temptation to help only the strongest survive and weed out the weakest links.

Do you use the same criteria to smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, or possibly a kebab or pizza more than once a week. I reckon not.

You drink don't you ? I'm guessing of course, but i reckon you do, and have been plastered more than once.
So has natural selection singled you out as a duffer.

 

[niall Y]

For natural selection to work you have to be weeded out (no pun intended) before you have a chance to breed.

 

[Jacob]

For natural selection to work you have to be weeded out (no pun intended) before you have a chance to breed.

Drugs and alcohol lead to promiscuity (so I'm told ) and hence get selected for rather than against.
It's what you'd expect - nature's last resort survival mech. Disturbed and disrupted life styles lead to increased rates of reproduction across the board with many species, plant and animal. Then over-population helps ensure a few survivors when the dung finally hits the fan, even if they are P heads and lunatics!

 

[Jacob]

......
At which point do you think that they will fold their tents and go legit?

As soon as they can if they've got any sense.

 

[Spectric]

For natural selection to work you have to be weeded out (no pun intended) before you have a chance to breed.

Well I reckon it is at least working to some extent as looking at some of the junkies at that pharmacy they can just manage to walk let alone breed.

 

[Sachakins]

My comment was about taxation, which I thought I'd addressed. Home brewed beer and home grown tobacco are not taxed, so why would homegrown cannabis be?

I never said anything about home grown and tax, only sales and tax.

 

[Daniel2]

What's wrong with promiscuity ?

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

I have known several over the years.
I've known a much greater number of alcoholics and heavy smokers, in fact old friends who have had their lives dominated by or even died as a result.
Not sure why cannabis is seen as a special case - statistically it is very low down the list in terms of cause of death. Opiates are worse but top of the list is tobacco.

I'm not sure tobacco is these days, there's a lot less smokers than there were when I was a kid. Alcoholism is rife and has to be No.1 now. There's a whole tsunami of health problems on the horizon due to "casual drinking". I had a very interesting chat with my GP about this last year and he thinks it's coming in the next 10-20 years.
How many people do we all know that crack a bottle of wine open or have a couple of large G 'n' Ts or whiskeys at the end of a stressful day to unwind? Not just the odd working day, most working days. Then a nice meal at a restaurant at the weekend possibly?, a bottle or two and a movie after at home? Sunday lunch at the pub then repeat ad hoc for the rest of the year and that doesn't include special occasions? A large part of British social culture is based around drinking and its associated establishments.
I know I've opened a can of worms and I'm gonna get 'Outraged from Surbiton' and his ilk tear me a new one for starting the next sharpening thread, but I've experienced first hand the devastation that alcohol causes. I've known people drink themselves to death (literally). I know brilliant people who are functioning alcoholics and the clock is ticking. People I love are killing themselves in front of me and it breaks my heart, and before the angry brigade jump on their keyboards I'm not some fervent teetotaller, I like a drink too believe me, but I can take it or leave it now that I've gotten older. It's not that big a deal anymore like it was when I was a kid.
Anyway rant over, apologies for that as the original post was about legalising dope (I believe) or it could've been about whether it was best served on a Tormek T8 or a wet stone, I'm losing the will now . I did read an interesting article a few years back that said if alcohol had just been invented it would be banned outright..... Slainte.

 

[Cobbs]

I never said anything about home grown and tax, only sales and tax.

Fair enough - sorry.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure tobacco is these days, there's a lot less smokers than there were when I was a kid. Alcoholism is rife and has to be No.1 now. There's a whole tsunami of health problems on the horizon due to "casual drinking". I had a very interesting chat with my GP about this last year and he thinks it's coming in the next 10-20 years.
How many people do we all know that crack a bottle of wine open or have a couple of large G 'n' Ts or whiskeys at the end of a stressful day to unwind? Not just the odd working day, most working days. Then a nice meal at a restaurant at the weekend possibly?, a bottle or two and a movie after at home? Sunday lunch at the pub then repeat ad hoc for the rest of the year and that doesn't include special occasions? A large part of British social culture is based around drinking and its associated establishments.
I know I've opened a can of worms and I'm gonna get 'Outraged from Surbiton' and his ilk tear me a new one for starting the next sharpening thread, but I've experienced first hand the devastation that alcohol causes. I've known people drink themselves to death (literally). I know brilliant people who are functioning alcoholics and the clock is ticking. People I love are killing themselves in front of me and it breaks my heart, and before the angry brigade jump on their keyboards I'm not some fervent teetotaller, I like a drink too believe me, but I can take it or leave it now that I've gotten older. It's not that big a deal anymore like it was when I was a kid.
Anyway rant over, apologies for that as the original post was about legalising dope (I believe) or it could've been about whether it was best served on a Tormek T8 or a wet stone, I'm losing the will now . I did read an interesting article a few years back that said if alcohol had just been invented it would be banned outright..... Slainte.

Tobacco is still the biggest killer by far, followed by alcohol, then opioids.
Not sure why the relatively insignificant use of cannabis is such an issue. I guess it's a cultural thing.
On the face of it vaping looks a bigger issue, as the entry point for nicotine addiction and smoking

 

[Bob Chapman]

So logically a beer when you're sixteen should lead to alcoholism.

Not sure about 'should', but logically it does. Every alcoholic must have had a first drink that eventually lead to alcoholism. Fortunately not everyone becomes addicted.

 

[Jacob]

Not sure about 'should', but logically it does. Every alcoholic must have had a first drink that eventually lead to alcoholism. Fortunately not everyone becomes addicted.

Not "should" but "could". One case I know started as teenage cider drinker. They'd all have a go, as we all did, but only a few turn into alcoholics with a problem.
Ditto tobacco, though the likelihood of addiction (and death) is much greater.

 

[XTiffy]

GuitardoctorW7,
I am sorry but we must live in different worlds! No, we don't have a drink at the end of the day and we don't go for a meal at the weekend. Though I am retired nothing has really changed. I spent 13+ years in the Royal Navy where drinking culture was normal, afterall we had the rum tot every lunch time and yes there was the odd case of individuals who could not leave the drink alone. These days it is ridiculous to have supermarkets selling alcohol and pubs open to all hours.
As to smoking that is your choice if you want to poison yourself and shorten your life. Smokers have always paid more tax which would easily cover their NHS cost and they more often die young so "saving the NHS money". My father was warned when he was forty to give up smoking and that was eighty years ago.

 

[Bingy man]

Tobacco is still the biggest killer by far, followed by alcohol, then opioids.
Not sure why the relatively insignificant use of cannabis is such an issue. I guess it's a cultural thing.
On the face of it vaping looks a bigger issue, as the entry point for nicotine addiction and smoking

I agree about the vapes 100% . I was watching an old film recently I think it could have been a carry on film and the doctor in a hospital was smoking a pipe . smoking was encouraged and indorsed by adverts and film stars of the time . I think ( no scientific evidence ) that vapes In 10 or 15 years will be causing a whole host of health issues just like smoking tobacco . Im just glad I gave up smoking anything and everything and just replace it with vaping , likewise my relatively low alcohol intake also remained the same . Because the police are now able to check for cannabis at the roadside then why not allow it . I can drink alcohol and as long as i,m under 35 mg and it’s legal to drive ??? But smoke a joint and it’s game over . Points / possible ban and of course increased insurance the following year . Smokers have been social pariahs for years so it’s only natural for the tables to turn and cannabis users to be targeted instead . NB any reference to smoking cannabis is to adults that are 18 or above . I’d never support anyone younger as I believe that’s where the damage is done .

 

[treeturner123]

There is something of a difference between Smoking and Drinking and taking drugs of any kind, in the western world.

The use of drugs has really only, in the western world, been available at large since the mid/late 19th Century. Think the Opium wars, Laudanum and the original Coke! The main thrust though has been since the second world war with to ability to manufacture and to import from all over the world.

Smoking however started in the late 16th/early 17th century and was very soon cheap and available to most people. The use of alcohol is very ancient and, until the mid 19th century the only way, by drinking 'Small Beer', to ensure that people didn't catch typhoid or any of the other highly contagious and fatal water bourn diseases. In addition, again, it was cheap.

As a result smoking and drinking forms part of the whole fabric of our society. The terrible death for so many, including Passive Smokers, from lung cancer, bladder cancer and cancer of various organs of the mouth, has made a significant difference. BUT, do check what happened when alcohol was banned in the States in the 20's. A terrible mistake.

The only way in my view to reduce these is a combination of price and advertising the problems that any addiction can cause whether medical or social.

Finally, please, as several others have done, don't claim that taking drugs has no real effect. It does have significant effects both medically and socially

 

[wally7]

surely enough states in america, plus netherlands and many other countries have legalised cannabis long enough for some figures to be available. Anybody know ant official studies?
BTW regular recreational dope smoker from aged 18 to now 79. Never had a day off work when I was working in hard rock mining.
Lost a few shifts with hangovers though!
treeturner obviously drugs be it alcohol/nicotine/caffeine has efeects other wise people wouldn;t use them!
Mankind in all climates and countries have always used stuff to alter what can be seen and felt as tedious reality'
I've had many a laugh at pissheads slating me for having a joint, I don't know of many people who don;t use some artificial means to alter their feelings.thoughts even the health freaks with their adrenal highs,
not attacking anyone I'm still a peaceloving forgiving old hippy

 

[Bingy man]

It’s a bit like prostitution - it may of been eradicated from the streets and red light districts but it has not gone away nor will it . Exactly the same with weed , illegal gambling dens , dog fighting etc etc etc . I’m not saying everything that is illegal should be made legal of course but billions could be saved and made by making weed legal . It wasn’t that long ago it was illegal to be a homosexual and off to prison you would go . My point here is what is morraly and unacceptable to some is a way of life for others .

 

[Jacob]

It’s a bit like prostitution - it may of been eradicated from the streets and red light districts but it has not gone away nor will it . Exactly the same with weed , illegal gambling dens , dog fighting etc etc etc . I’m not saying everything that is illegal should be made legal of course but billions could be saved and made by making weed legal . It wasn’t that long ago it was illegal to be a homosexual and off to prison you would go . My point here is what is morraly and unacceptable to some is a way of life for others .

I wouldn't call dope smoking a way of life, for most anyway. Just an occasional little self indulgence - not for me particularly haven't been near it for very many years. Had to watch my kids growing up and experimenting too. Non of them did it for long. One of them had a bit of a booze prob, non of them smoked