New workshop build, with a difference!

[Dibs-h]

It's all what the local customers demand, Dick. For instance, in reading this site, it seems that tile roofs are pretty typical there. Here (midwest US), nobody has tile roofs. Thus, you can't walk into the local borg (big box hardware/building supply store, aka Home Depot or Lowe's) and get the tiles or any special tools or fittings required. In California or the desert southwest, where tile roofs are common, I bet you can get those things at the same stores.

Kirk

Kirk

What's the reasoning behind that? Is it local availability of products, etc.? Also what's the lifespan of a shingled roof over there?

Our house roof is the same stuff as the workshop - small rectangular clay tiles.

I re-roofed the house about 6yrs ago - reusing almost all the old tiles, and 6yrs on with a fair few high winds, all still perfect. When re-roofing, pulling off the old tiles, the original nails were copper and cut nails and the back pointing was still there - my money would be on that it was the original roof. Not bad for almost 90yrs.

Dibs

 

[Mcluma]

Most of the Bitumen tiles, or asfalt tiles have a glue strip on the back which you pull off when you put them down, then you put four nails in per tile

I'm totaly lost on the drip edge.

the way you start the tiles is you cut one tile horizontal in half, turn it round, nail it down with a 1 overhang, and the next one you put on normal with the same overhang, the cut of square you use again as your ridge tiles (so minimal wastage)

That is your drop edge, nothing else is needed

unless i completely got it wrong on the type of tiles you use

i refer to these tiles

 

[kirkpoore1]

...For instance, in reading this site, it seems that tile roofs are pretty typical there. Here (midwest US), nobody has tile roofs....
Kirk

Kirk

What's the reasoning behind that? Is it local availability of products, etc.? Also what's the lifespan of a shingled roof over there?

Our house roof is the same stuff as the workshop - small rectangular clay tiles.

I re-roofed the house about 6yrs ago - reusing almost all the old tiles, and 6yrs on with a fair few high winds, all still perfect. When re-roofing, pulling off the old tiles, the original nails were copper and cut nails and the back pointing was still there - my money would be on that it was the original roof. Not bad for almost 90yrs.

Dibs

Dibs:

I think it comes down to three things: Cost, cost, and cost. Oh, and maybe weather. Tiles cost a lot more than asphalt shingles, you have to have a stronger structure to support them, and it takes longer to install. When I had my last house reshingled about 10 years ago, it cost about $5000, including (IIRC) 2200 square feet of 25 year rated shingles, labor, repairs, and hauling off the old roofing material. It took 3 guys one day to do it. And these guys weren’t illegal immigrants (who usually do this kind of work).

As far as weather is concerned, in some places snow loads are a concern. And I wouldn’t be surprise to learn that tiles are more vulnerable to ice dams, but I don’t have any information on that.

When my father built the house I lived in as a kid back in the early 70’s, I think he said the tile roof on that (in California) was rated for 50 years. (BTW, these were big tiles—each weighed 7 pounds, and my sisters and I carried every one of them up to the roof on a 2x12 ramp—no crane for my dad. ) The asphalt shingles I will have put on have a 30 year rating, I think. Most people don’t worry about durability as much as they should, since few people live in the same house for more than 5-10 years. Now that I have my shop built, though, my foot’s nailed to the floor for good.

I'm sure tiles would be better in the wind, as you indicate, just due to the weight, though I doubt it would help with a direct hit from a tornado (which we get around here). Also, they stand up to really high heat better, which is why they're popular in Arizona. But otherwise, cost rule.

Kirk

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi Kirk,
I love the analogy of ‘the local Borg store.’ If their staff are anything like ours, the likeness extends beyond the shape of the building :smile:
I suppose that because you have so many houses roofed in shingles, the ‘system’ is better designed. Here, shingles are only used for sheds and summer houses. A builder would give you a very funny look if he was asked to roof a house in them. However, I have seen some new developments on the commercial side that use them.

Thanks for the glue tip. As it happens, because we suffer with wind (watched Blazing Saddles too often) I was going to do just that - a blob on the corner of each tab, as recommended by Iko, the manufacturer. I was also going to lay the apex tiles from the right hand end so that the wind can’t get under the edge.

Bye for now..Dick.

 

[Mcluma]

As promissed a picture of my carport with the shingles


DSC_2547 by mcluma, on Flickr

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi Mcluma,
Thanks for the photo and info.You have certainly set me a standard to work to :smile: I hope our roof looks as good.
The drip edge (as used in America) is a metal sheet that sits under and supports the first row of shingles and then diverts the water away from the building.
The following link shows what I mean. http://www.traditionalroofing.com/TR6_drip_edges.html
You mentioned that your shingles were a good price; would you supply me with details of your supplier please.

Many thanks...Dick.

 

[Mcluma]

PM sent

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi folks,
To date, we have painted and fitted the fascias down both sides, and secured the over fascia ventilation. We then had the ‘fun’ of fitting the vapour proof membrane. The slightest puff of wind and we were wrestling with a large green sausage. First we snapped a line one metre up from the vents, and lifted the whole, cut length onto the lookouts and used spring clamps to hold the ends steady. Then I stapled every 600mm. Repeat this process ad nauseum up to the ridge. To get access above step and ladder height I made a hinged ‘roof ladder’ to the gambrel shape. Due to the low apex angle, nothing would hold me up as a normal r/l would. So I cut some ply into triangles that fitted on the end of the ladder to offer some resistance to slipping. Added to this was Diane on the end of a rope counterbalancing me.It worked well but my old H and S manager would have had kittens.
See the finished roof below.

I have tried to show the over fascia vent, but I should have taken the pic before the vapour barrier was fitted. I hope that it makes sense.

Now we need the continuous roof vent as advertised and recommended by Iko (to extend the life of the shingles). Do they sell it in the UK... do they heck ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) Diane to the rescue. She found an American site that showed a roof venting system with a division in Europe, and blow me down if it isn’t made in Yorkshire - Beverley to be precise.
So, did they sell in the UK - yes they do \/ \/ \/ back on track once more.

So now it’s back to rubbing down windows and more painting..........

That all folks.

Regards...Dick.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Dick:

It's good to see you're trudging along safely. I don't think I expected to see whole-roof shrink wrap.

When you get your ridge vent, be sure to follow the instructions fully. I've had damage from leaks at ridge vents at two houses, the first due to a bad install (I think) and the second due to a bad repair of adjacent shingle damage. I'm sure current vents are better than the 1980's and 1990's versions, but I'm also sure they expect a better educated installer. They work, but I'm afraid I'm not a huge fan.

Kirk

 

[Halo Jones]

Dick,

It is really starting to look the business. So good that I have abadonned all want / hope of ever posting my rather paltry efforts! With the weather soon improving I bet you are going to make some extra good progress (I have been given orders to halt my workshop and start on ripping up the family bathroom and get it replaced before baby "2" comes along in May). Well done to you both.

Halo

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi Kirk,

Isn’t it fascinating what two different pairs of eyes see. Now it will be forever a shrink wrapped roof :smile: but just imagine the heat tunnel that we had to build and pass it through :shock:

It’s understandable that once the ‘shrinkwrap’ is cut to fit the vent, that a weak point has been introduced. As you aren’t a fan, how would you approach it, or is it the whole concept that you don’t like?


Hello Halo,

Please don’t think that our offering is an ego trip. It isn’t about how grand or well built it is.
I know where all the duff bits of woodwork are - I choose not to photograph from that angle :wink: It’s about sharing the experience, and receiving and being able to give help that is the strength of this site and it’s members.
Whilst your build may be a more humble abode, I am sure that you would receive the same support and encouragement that we have been given. And believe me, it does make a difference.
Diane’s comment on the bathroom was ‘bathrooms are for wimps’ :smile: but that is because our children grew up in a building site that lasted from our second child’s birth right up to them leaving home - boy, am I a slow worker. But in my defence, we did have mortgage rates that climbed to 15%. We had to save up to buy each sheet of plasterboard (not joking).
Good luck with ‘Baby 2’ (it sounds like a film) and we hope that mum and baby will be fine.

Regards...Dick.

 

[Mcluma]

I'm curious to see the roof vent. do you have a picture of it. as i'm not sure #yet# as to why you need it

The vapour barier, what make/type is it, its not plastic is it?

 

[kirkpoore1]

I'm curious to see the roof vent. do you have a picture of it. as i'm not sure #yet# as to why you need it

The vapour barier, what make/type is it, its not plastic is it?

Mcluma:
Here's a diagram of a ridge vent system:

In the winter, without the ridge venting, you can get ice dams and leaking. In the summer, your roof (and attic, if you have one) will get much hotter and tend to transmit that heat through your insulation into the living space.

Dick, as far as ridge vents go, they work. Having been in my attic during the summer to make repairs, however, I know it still gets really hot in there when the sun is out (125+ F). I have come to believe they should be supplemented by gable end vents (possibly with a fan) or turbine vents like these:

Of course, since they have moving parts, turbine vents will probably wear out, may get damaged and become noisy, and (so I've heard) may need to be covered during the winter. But I really like the concept.

Kirk

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. "
--Yogi Berra

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi McLuma,

See below for the roof vent website.

http://www.tapco-europe.com/ridgevents.htm

A back vent is recommended by all shingle manufacturers when a roof is insulated, as it helps to divert the very hot air generated on a sunny day (see Kirk’s summer roof temp). This heat would degrade the shingles and shorten their lifespan.

The v/b is manufactured by Ruberoid and is rather like a tightly knitted string vest, not plastic. That was Kirk pulling my leg.

Kirk,
If you go to the above website, the video shows an example of the ‘squeaky’ roof fans as a reason to use the plastic roof vent :smile:
When I decided to have round gable end windows, the idea was to make them opening so that a fan could be fitted to venturi out the hot air and some of the dust that escapes the filters. I have never done anything in my life the easy way - opening round windows - what a mug. Any normal person would make them square or rectangular......but hey, they do look good.

Regards...Dick.

 

[Mcluma]

Thanks for that, had a look at the spec sheet and instruction manual. That should work for you. i never used these i used the normal vents

 

[Cegidfa]

Hi folks,

After many coats of paint we have finally fitted the first window. It took a while because there are two more faces to paint than the normal four, and they are quite large windows.
Because it’s what we can get locally, and it has been recommended on this forum, we used Sadolin Superdec Satin - made for exterior and cladding. The disadvantage is that there is no primer, so it takes a while to cover fully. It is strange stuff to use and shows brushmarks for several coats - it is also recommended not to work it, as with normal paint; just get it on and leave it alone. I wonder how microporous it will be after four coats?

In best American tradition we have fitted a sill pan; not something one sees over here. The window is jacked up 5mm and the front will not be sealed. This allows any leakage to exit down the drainage plane. I feel that this is superior to the British method of caulking every gap to bug gery, as the caulk has a limited life and will then hold in any water that gets through the cracks. The American way accepts that it will leak at some point and diverts the water away safely.

We decided to opt for and easy life as the frames are ‘kin heavy, and marked the correct projection and fitted temporary battens to the sides. We also taped 3/5mm sill spacers in position. It was then a matter of lifting the frame into the hole and fixing, after adjusting the side to side clearance. I had fitted four flat metal brackets to the frame prior to installation, so it was easy to do the fixing. Another job that we thought would be hard but was, in fact, very easy. I think that I have worn a hole in my thinking cap :shock:

See finished job below with my ‘tame’ window fitter/bricklayer/trench digger and fabrication erector and... errr oh yes...wife.

That's all for now.......

Regards....Dick.

 

[Cegidfa]

Warning. This update isn't fully wood orientated

Hi folks,
Time for a small update. The window installation is now complete. Just try managing triple glazing in a strong wind :shock:

We have been rather held up waiting for the shingles, but we are assured that we should have them this Thursday. However, we have been diverted by the leaching field refusing to drain, so we have been paddling in piddle (not the river in Dorset).
So, we hired a friend with a digger, and having worked out the area required after doing a soak test, set to digging a 170 foot trench 4 feet deep, ordering the piping and 16 tonnes of 16mm gravel.

The first step was to have the septic tank emptied and try to jet the pipe clear. This didn’t work as the hose wouldn’t go more than two feet before hitting what sounded like a bend?

Having dug one third of the run, it was thought expedient to fit the pipe and backfill as we go, just in case of a collapse. The gravel was tipped in and levelled and the pipes placed in position. Having cut the old exit pipe we found a 31/2 inch dia. by three inches long plug of wood jammed in the pipe :shock: This was the ‘bend‘ that we first thought that we had, before excavation showed otherwise. No wonder the system has never been very good. At this point I should have broken down in tears at the waste of money and effort. But, when a leaching field is in clay (which wouldn’t be allowed now) every little helps, so we used a tee instead of a bend and carried on. This way we can use both systems.
So, we set the fall on the three lengths of pipe and covered them with more gravel and then covered that with landscape fabric to stop the dirt mixing with the gravel. This process we repeated three more times.

The join.

The first three lengths.

The landscape fabric.

Filling in and clearing spare soil.

The finished job.

Apart from raking a fine tilth, seeding and rolling - and then collapsing.

Back to the workshop.
With luck, we should be able to start fitting the shingles on Thursday or Friday - another new experience.

Regards....Dick

 

[Mcluma]

Great update

Keep them coming =D>

 

[wobblycogs]

Staying off topic for a bit if I might...

I'm curious about your leaching field as I've not seen one before (I've heard people mention them though). I assume that you have a septic tank to catch solid waste and the pipe you've laid is to allow liquid waste to filter into the ground. I would have thought you'd want a large-ish soak away at the end of the pipe though to give the maximum area to get rid of waste, the picture seems to show it just stopping although on closer inspection I'm not sure you've laid all the pipe in that picture. I presume you also have to be careful about what you throw down the sink and toilets so that you don't kill of the microbes in the ground.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Ouch! How did a chunk of wood get into the septic tank in the first place? (Not a new form of Fe-stool dust extractor, I presume.)

The windows look good. Are you still going to put some gable windows in?

It'll be a little too late to help you, but we're having our roof reshingled sometime in the next couple of weeks. I'll try to take pictures as they work and post them for comparison purposes.

Kirk