Is it any wonder why.....

[mwinfrance]

Something to think about.
Whether or not you believe that climate change is influenced by humans or not.
If the Thwaite glacier melts, sea levels worldwide will rise by about 80cm , the nearby town ( in France they are called "communes" ) which our "commune was fused with, without asking our inhabitants, will be massively affected.Their seafront businesses, and houses ( which are already flooded yearly ) would disappear as they are already just below the very high tide lines.We have some of the highest tides in the world. that will cause huge disruption to them, many would have to move.In this ( my ) commune we know that the reason for the fusion is that there was no more 'safe" land to build on in the other commune. Most here would have ( if asked to vote ) voted for the fusion.the two communes were once one, in fact they were the port of this commune and they split away.Our objection is just that we were not asked, the mayor ( at the time ) of our commune, was talked into the fusion( without allowing the inhabitants of either commune a vote ) by the mayor of the "port" commune.Had we been asked we would have been "solidaire", and it is highly likely that there would have been a majority for the fusion.

That is "background", within the next 10 to 20 years a large part of "the port" commune will be flooded and the 'refugees" will mostly move to our commune.

Now, relevant to the UK and France, and Ireland..the gulf stream.

The climate that we "enjoy" in Northern Europe ( including France the UK and Ireland ) is influenced by the gulf stream, bringing warm water across to here and thus giving us a temperate climate, despite us having a relatively high latitude.Without the gulf stream it would be much much much colder here - UK, Ireland,France. Agriculture would have to change radically, fast to fast to avoid millions or tens of millions starving or being forced to migrate to warmer climes.

It could happen in your lifetime, certain to happen in the lifetimes of your children.

Would you want the inhabitants of the countries that you or they would have to migrate to in order to simply stay alive to be welcomed, because such change would be no direct fault of yours or your children.

Or would you think the people whose countries you or your children needed to go to should say." no, you can't come in..we are full, stay in your own country, no economic refugees or migrants here, no climate change migrants here, turn your boats around, go home".

It is coming, the only question is how soon.

"Do unto others as you would be done by"

 

[Terry - Somerset]

That sea level rise will inundate parts of both the UK and France in time seems likely. Whether or not this impacts the Gulf Stream is debateable.

Recent research suggests that in the UK 200,000 houses could be at risk by 2050 - no doubt with more to come in subsequent decades. Over 25 years this is ~8,000 per year - entirely manageable as people relocate inland.

There will be no need to go to other countries. It is plausible that homes comfortably above potential flooding will command a price premium, albeit probably less than that for those in the catchment areas of good schools.

The real issue is the risk of more rapid catastrophic sea level rise. This could submerge large parts of coastal cities (including London) and be a worldwide, not just local, problem. Most countries however wealthy would be challenged to cope with their domestic problems - housing, food supply, ports, power, communications infrastructure etc.

I would not expect other countries to come to our aid - they would have their own potentially overwhelming problems to deal with. Pakistan as an example - much of the country is under water during monsoon season, agriculture destroyed, tens of millions impacted with homes flooded. Aid provided is trivial compared to the scale of the problem.

The best hope for the future (children and grandchildren included) is to understand and anticipate - make personal plans to address the personal impacts. Idly waiting until it is evident you have a problem is to leave it far too late.

 

[mwinfrance]

The gulf stream problem is only partially due to the rise in sea level that is already happening with worse to come.
It ( the gulf stream problem ) is down to the truly vast amounts of cold freshwater coming off the Greenland glaciers melting, a question of the difference in temperature and density of that melt water pushing the warmer waters of the gulf stream further south away from us . Or ( worst scenario ) collapsing the gulf stream all together. Far too many people think that "global warming" means that it will get warmer everywhere and continue doing so.Eventually the average temp of the earth's land and oceans will rise, it is rising now.But in the meantime we are experiencing huge swings of precipitation and temperature and ever more rapid melting of glaciers.By 2050 the Arctic may well be mostly open water.Before that we'll lose the gulf stream effects on Northern Europe ( North Western Europe , France , UK and Ireland in particular ) . look at the globe, look at the latitudes of these three countries, look at the winters and summers of other areas at the same latitude.With the gulf stream gone, or moved or attenuated ,what areas that are not then flooded due to sea level rises, will be very very much colder and for longer periods than our current 4 or 5 months of winter .It will not be possible to grow enough food to support the current populations.It will rain less in the months which are not affected by that much colder and extended winter time than it does now, making growing food even more difficult. Starvation due to cold and cold related crop failures would be the new normal, migration would be the only way out for millions, if not tens of millions.The refugee boats would be going the other way with those who currently want no migrants desperately seeking to migrate to mainland europe and beyond.Quite possibly meeting waves of migrants coming the other way towards them. Water restrictions are already in place , despite what appears to be heavy rain, there is not enough of it, or it is not stocked, nor transferred to where it is needed to grow food and for drinking, or it is wasted.

There will be huge problems with water shortages and food shortages, affecting those who were not previously touched by those problems. A large element of Putin's attack on the Ukraine is for the grain fields, the fresh water.Whole countries are waking up to these problems and are slowly , far too slowly making moves to try to mitigate the absolute worst of them. Britain has decided to take actions which make these problems worse for all but the richest and most mobile of it's people, they have already made sure to have other homes elsewhere to go to. The rest of the British population were persuaded to vote ( 52% of those who voted ) to cut themselves off from their nearest emergency exit. those who persuaded them , have already kept their own options open.

Violence in the UK society will only get worse, the problem for those who would wish to go elsewhere is that "vote leave" slammed the exit doors shut to all but the richest.

The British can retreat inland all you want..but they will need fresh water, food and heat..they will grow the food where ? not all the land is suitable, food imports are massive , and already you have huge problems with them ( in large part due to the decision to leave the EU free market , the UK's water is now heavily polluted, apart from wind power ( which is no good for "base load" ) all other energy production materials ( wood, gas, coal, most of the oil ) is imported or run by outsiders ( the UK electricity system and generating stations in private non UK hands, or run by the EDF ) . The revenue from oil was squandered to bankroll the fight against the unions rather than invested in infrastructure, the housing stock is woefully insulated.

 

[TRITON]

IIRC there are between 2 and 2.5 million Brits dispersed across the EU countries, as Triton rightly points out(, almost all of them are economic migrants, who moved to the EU in search of a better life.

Believe it or not, but a number of these ex-pats living in the EU actually voted for brexit, not understanding at the time that would play directly against themselves.

At a stroke they became subject to EU rules concerning non members of the EU.
They went from having limitless time to spend there to only being allowed to stay 3 months out of every six.



One sarcastic comment at the time -
“British man shocked to learn that a national vote to end freedom of movement ended freedom of movement.”

 

[mwinfrance]

I know, I mentioned earlier "up thread" that I'd met some here, they told me they were voting leave because in their opinion there were too many black and brown faces in the UK and in France too.I knew that they'd be affected by a leave vote themselves, and that as you say, you can't fix stupid, nor can you fix racist.

They got their desire, leave won..and they had to leave France ( moaning that it should not apply to them )as i said earlier, "good riddance". Imbeciles, what they were able to get for their goods and chattels when the sold them here, would not get them a one bed flat other than somewhere with a major immigrant population in the UK. which would "do their heads in nicely" that and having a brown prime minister and home secretary .

a mate of mine who works in french customs says that the increase in Albanians going to the UK from Last May to last September was in his opinion likely because they were smuggling in prime ministerial coke a gram at a time.He figures that looking at the photo of her and Kwasi , that a bit over 10 kgs between them over that period would explain a lot; especially their budget.


I couldn't possibly comment
Although there were confirmed reports of quantities of Bolivian marching powder being found in various prime ministerial offices after she left.

 

[Fergie 307]

Very good, and she still appears to think she was on the right track all along, just got the timing a bit wrong or whatever, truly bizarre.

My figures were the most recent I could find at the time I posted them,I was replying to Deema's initial post about Albanians, in which he did not state the time period to which he was referring.I remembered someone here posting in a recent thread about Albanians being the highest percentage of immigrants to the UK in 2022, and someone else posting what were at the time they posted the latest official figures for 2022 which said otherwise.As search here is not that great, I used the search string "illegal immigration to UK 2022 official figures.That gave me the official UK gov figures on the page which I linked to.You'll note that page mentions nowhere any links to more recent figures, leading anyone to presume that the figures there were indeed the most recent.

I posted that link to them before Deema posted his more recent figures saying that he was referring to May to Sept 2022..Of the many things which I can do, one of them is not being able to divine that Deema was ( despite him not mentioning a particular period of 2022 ) in his initial post referring to May to Sept 2022. Nor would one reasonably expect that if UK gov has more recent figures than beginning of 2022 to May 2022 that they would not mention it, it must also be said that the periods that UK gov has figures for seem to be arbitrary..if they release them every 3 months , one would expect them to use the convention of Jan to Mar ( inclusive), followed by Apr to Jun ( inclusive ), followed by Jul to Sep ( inclusive ) and Oct to Dec ( inclusive) ..Is May to Sep inclusive or is it end of May is it a 4 month period, or 5, or 6. who knows ? Usually governments release such figures on a 3 monthly basis beginning 1st Jan. trends are considered across 3 months and overall figures across 12 months ( again starting 1st Jan ) otherwise they could be daily, or hourly.A single large boat of Ethiopians could make them the largest number on a given day. If that was the day which made headlines, you would appear to have a large influx of them compared to others. Extrapolating that to an overall trend would be incorrect though.

From what I hear via various media in various languages, it appears that the Albanians are being trafficked by Albanian gangs to work as slaves in the drug business and prostitution in specific areas of the UK.In France they are trafficked in by Albanian gangs for prostitution and to be used as street thieves and pickpockets.In Italy it is the same.Their english language skills are non existent as apart from approaching their designated "marks" in the street with an outstretched newspaper, they never converse with anyone other than the other Albanian traffickers who are their slave masters.

edit..you posted whilst I was typing Fergie no offence taken I type more slowly in english on a french layout keyboard, the letter layouts are more conducive to speed in the language the layout is intended for.

Indeed, your comments were perfectly fair. My issue was with Jacob quoting your figures in order to discredit Deema's later observation, which of course they don't as they relate to a different period entirely, as I am sure he was, or certainly should have been, fully aware.

 

[Jacob]

I’m interested in the evidence supporting that. Whether we like it it not, capitalism has created the society and health benefits we all enjoy. With very few exceptions (eg North Korea) all socialist states have or are in the process of moving towards capitalism.

Usually it's the other way around. In general, successful economies spend more on public services - health and education being top of the list.
The most spectacular failure of a "socialist" state trying to move towards a free market economy has been Russia of course. Now run by gangsters and oligarchs, back to the dark ages. Brilliantly documented by Adam Curtis Russia 1985-1999: TraumaZone

Those that remain on the socialist track are not ones the vast majority wishes to emigrate to.

Migrants move in search of a better quality of life and the opportunity to earn a living. Always have, from prehistory onwards, always will

There are of course the exceptions who like the choice of five hair cuts, two dress codes and starvation.

The exceptions tend to be the old and feeble, or those who have a bigger slice of the cake and aren't motivated.

 

[stuart little]

Not at all, pointing out the massive inaccuracy of the comment that I replied to , does not in any way mean that I'm blind to problems elsewhere.If you seriously feel that it in order to refute a comment concerning what happens in one country ( I know Saudi Arabia and the emirates, I have also seen first hand how their rulers comport themselves when away from the gaze of the media ) that it is necessary to mention all others ? Then the server hosting this websitre would have to be running on Amazon's Elastic cloud to allow for the data storage and bandwidth.Also what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, you didn't mention all the other states and societies around the world where who you know is much more important ( when it applies to crimes committed ) that what the crimes are.

I'm not in the UK, I left well over 30 years ago, specifically to avoid the xenophobic "blame the others, especially the poor and the brown and black people" mentality that was being pushed to people, and which unfortunately they were lapping up, my immediate family there included.I had a thriving business there and had I stayed I would have very probably inherited 7 figures when my father died.He died in the month before I left the UK, i had probably been disinherited by then ( I neither know nor care ) despite my building his business up with him. I cut off all contact ( having informed them that they disgusted me ) when I discovered that my family were all national front supporters ( I will not use capitals letters on that or similar names ever ) the rest may be dead by now, or not, it does not interest me. Brexit did not surprise me one bit.I have met "ex-pat" Brits here in France who voted for it because ( I quote ) "There are too many blacks everywhere" . Many of them have since had to leave themselves, "good riddance". France has enough ( even one is too many ) racists and xenophobes who are"home grown".

re The UK,and what it has become..I have ( I mentioned in another thread ) kept pet rats, very intelligent animals.Rats will leave a sinking ship when it is obvious that it is going down fast.I left the UK and have never regretted it for a moment.Unfortunately Brexit has made it much very much harder for others to do the same. You too live in mainland Europe, apparently since quite some time, I imagine that like me you shake your head ruefully at what transpires in the UK, and are sympathetic for those who are caught there now, but we jumped ship when we could.

Before someone comes back with "well if it is so bad , why do all the migrants want to come to the UK"..Simple, the vast majority speak english ( other european languages are much harder to learn and require far greater proficiency in order to survive, work or open a business ), and the "black economy" employing "illegals" is far bigger in the UK than in other european countries, even Spain.SWMBO was horrified when I explained gangmasters to her ( they did not exist when I left the UK ) ..She said ( as do many other french when it is explained to them ) "surely that kind of exploitation cannot be legal".

re the OS.. and OP.. I noticed when in the UK ( and the same thing is the case here ) that the majority of judges and magistrates, are completely "out of touch" and seems to live in another world ( I remember Lord Longford being a perfect example , re his thoughts on Myra Hindley being a reformed person who should have been released ,because she said she had "found god" ..how does one find that which does not exist and has never existed ) sentencing frequently appears to be handed down as if the judges and magistrates feel that giving a nonsensical light sentence is somehow "sticking it to the man", as if they themselves were not the personification of "the man".

edited for typos

Religion:- The biggest hoax played on mankind - ever.

 

[stuart little]

I wouldn't entirely agree, but have to say I have been made to feel unwelcome on more occasions in France than in any other country I have visited. People often accuse the British of having some kind of superiority complex, some of the French appear to be far worse, in my experience anyway.

I think this is down to whether or not one can speak the language, or 'have an attempt at it'.
Visiting parts of N.Wales can be similar, I've found.

 

[stuart little]

Well, the latest arrivals are predominantly Albanian.

‘However, since May 2022, there has been a significant increase in the number of Albanians crossing the channel on small boats. From May to September 2022 Albanian nationals alone comprised 42% of small boat crossings, with 11,102 Albanians arriving by small boat in those five months.’

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...actsheet-small-boat-crossings-since-july-2022

How many 'mafia' members 'sneaking' in?

 

[deema]

The most successful countries spend less on healthcare and education. Take the USA for example. Healthcare and college education isn’t free. In both France and Germany (both above the UK in economic rankings) although most of the healthcare is free you still have to pay Percentage of the cost, typically you take out private health insurance to cover this.

Russia is a wonderful example of socialism in action. Media becomes state controlled, the public become under state police control of every aspect of their life. Freedoms are totally restricted and disappearing becomes common place; usually never to return. Economic activity reduces. It requires the rise of a dictator to enact socialism and Putin has followed the well worn path both the far right and left have used to bring about such totalitarian states.

Why anyone who actually researched the experiences of socialist states, how they come about and what it takes to maintain them or indeed the quality of life within them wants to promote it is beyond me. Capitalism isn’t perfect, but life is never fair, neither in society or nature so to try and make it so isn’t likely to succeed. The best we can do is it mitigate the extremes.

 

[Jacob]

...

Russia is a wonderful example of socialism in action. Media becomes state controlled, the public become under state police control of every aspect of their life. Freedoms are totally restricted and disappearing becomes common place; usually never to return. Economic activity reduces. It requires the rise of a dictator to enact socialism and Putin has followed the well worn path both the far right and left have used to bring about such totalitarian states.
......

Russia stopped being a socialist/communist state in 1985. You obviously missed it!
They tried very hard to emulate the west and become a free-market economy but it was a total failure and it is now a mixture of dictatorship, gangster oligarchy etc etc not least because they were ill advised by the free market neoliberals of that era, including Thatcher and Reagan.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0d3hwl1/russia-19851999-traumazone

 

[stuart little]

Well, Joe Brown was quite right; "What a Crazy World We're Livin' in."

We have local elections coming up & now we're told we must have photo ID to be able to vote at a polling station! I wonder how we've managed so long without!!!!!

 

[Jacob]

Well, Joe Brown was quite right; "What a Crazy World We're Livin' in."

We have local elections coming up & now we're told we must have photo ID to be able to vote at a polling station! I wonder how we've managed so long without!!!!!

The tories think it will disenfranchise feeble minded Labour voters.

 

[John Brown]

Well, Joe Brown was quite right; "What a Crazy World We're Livin' in."

We have local elections coming up & now we're told we must have photo ID to be able to vote at a polling station! I wonder how we've managed so long without!!!!!

It's a shameful move to exclude the younger members of society from voting, as they tend to vote labour. Following the lead of American republicans. I wrote to my MP about it, but just received a stock response.
Luckily I have several photo-id items, so I'm planning on voting multiple times. I'll allocate my votes randomly, obviously. I like to be fair, even if my Tory overlords don't.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why would it exclude younger people? Are they stupider than everyone else? If anything they carry more photo I.D. than older people.


... the younger members of society ... tend to vote labour? Yes, but fortunately they usually ........ usually ...........grow up.

Incidentally, university student unions were on record as "making students aware" before the referendum that they could vote in the university towns and at home.

Unfortunately we have a government of cretins, but there isn't a question that Labour's the answer to.

 

[Jacob]

Why would it exclude younger people? Are they stupider than everyone else? If anything they carry more photo I.D. than older people.


... the younger members of society ... tend to vote labour? Yes, but fortunately they usually ........ usually ...........grow up.

Incidentally, university student unions were on record as "making students aware" before the referendum that they could vote in the university towns and at home.

Not true and would be highly illegal. Anybody living away from home can choose to be on either electoral role but not both, or have a postal vote. Students no different.

Unfortunately we have a government of cretins, ..

Yep. And you voted for them?

 

[John Brown]

Why would it exclude younger people? Are they stupider than everyone else? If anything they carry more photo I.D. than older people.

Why do you suppose they've done it then? To prevent voter fraud? Looks like a giant sledgehammer to crack a non-existent nut.

 

[Cozzer]

Astounding!
From feral youths attempting to maim someone for God knows what reason, we've travelled through topics such as tax, government policy, Brexit, Joe Orton, assaults on police, domestic violence, music and art education in schools, GDP, taxes again, Saudi, strikes, fraud, tanks, taxes again, an aircraft carrier, public executions, too much tax, too little tax, Lord Longford, the French, the English, the French again, racism, tax dodging, cycle lanes, HS2, migration, Norman Tebbitt, Albanians, Spain, illegal immigrants, the Gulf stream, healthcare, Russia, younger people... even bloody Hitler got a mention!

So many problems, so many topics, so many solutions..... and not one person has even commented on the video of a fight involving machetes, taking place in broad daylight in the middle of one of our cities.

No wonder a thread about sharpening can reach umpteen pages!

 

[bansobaby]

Astounding!
From feral youths attempting to maim someone for God knows what reason, we've travelled through topics such as tax, government policy, Brexit, Joe Orton, assaults on police, domestic violence, music and art education in schools, GDP, taxes again, Saudi, strikes, fraud, tanks, taxes again, an aircraft carrier, public executions, too much tax, too little tax, Lord Longford, the French, the English, the French again, racism, tax dodging, cycle lanes, HS2, migration, Norman Tebbitt, Albanians, Spain, illegal immigrants, the Gulf stream, healthcare, Russia, younger people... even bloody Hitler got a mention!

So many problems, so many topics, so many solutions..... and not one person has even commented on the video of a fight involving machetes, taking place in broad daylight in the middle of one of our cities.

No wonder a thread about sharpening can reach umpteen pages!

I will comment on the machete "fight"......

It's absolutely typical of this country that the youth of today can't even do bladed weapon fighting properly.

Any self respecting Mexican machete exponent would just p*ss themselves laughing.......

This list of things that this country can be proud of diminishes on a daily basis.