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It is not just how many officers there are, it is how they are used.

The cuts in numbers
Between March 2012 and March 2016, police officer numbers dropped from 134,101 to 124,006, a reduction of over 10,000. Greater Manchester alone lost 1201 police officers between 2012 and 2016.
In 2010 there were 79,500 police staff working for forces in England and Wales. By March 2016, this number had dropped to 61,668.
This represents a cut of nearly 23% in the police staff workforce.
The Metropolitan Police has been worst affected, with over 3,000 police staff jobs going between 2012 and 2016.

Police staff carry out tasks which do not require fully trained officers. In military terms, they would be described as a "force multiplier". They specialise in certain types of work, releasing officers to spend more time on the streets interacting with the public.

For example, if somebody is prosecuted for an assault there needs to be a case file produced for court. Certain parts of the file need to go to some people and be withheld from others. Building such a file can take hours of work depending on how complex is the case. This work is office-based, so it is more efficient for a member of police staff to do this instead of an officer. They will be cheaper to train and most likely be paid less. They will be much better at preparing a file than a street officer because they can become expert in this skill. One file clerk can support many officers. Once the file is submitted there will often be queries at odd intervals, which need to be processed. The clerk can do this instead of constantly interrupting officer tasks.

To save money but also save face, some police staff will be cut along with officers. The force can then truthfully state that less officers have been cut than they would otherwise have to. The real picture is that the remaining officers are burdened with more station-based tasks and spend less time out and about.

A simple head count of how many officers there are is a very misleading statistic. A better statistic would be to divide officer time into two parts - productive work time and support time. The public could be shocked to see how much police time they actually get. For example, consider a police station with around 200 officers. On a typical midweek night shift there might well be only about 8 available to answer emergency calls. If the shift is 8 hours long that gives a theoretical total of 64 hours work available. Around half of that will be station-based activities, possibly more. In man-hours this means you get the equivalent of about 4 officers answering emergency calls at any one time. Increasing this pulls officers off other tasks which will have to be done another time.

Cuts in custody staff mean that a street officer takes longer in the police station to cycle through the custody procedure each time they arrest somebody. Cuts in property clerks mean that street officers spend longer in the station dealing with found/stolen/evidential property than being out and about. The list goes on and it all adds up.

Basically each time you cut a member of police staff the hours of work that they used to do have to be passed on to somebody else. Some of that work will be absorbed by the remaining members of police staff, but this can only be done up to a point. A small amount will just be quietly abandoned, and the rest will get dumped on the officers reducing their time out the station.

The only way to deal with all this is to divide work tasks into three categories according to how important they are: must-do, should-do, could-do. The must-do jobs get the prime time. The should-do jobs get squeezed in where there are gaps, often being spread over a few days. The could-do jobs get last priority or even no priority at all. A few years ago a law was introduced banning smoking in cars where children were present. One force had to admit after some time that there had been no prosecutions for this offence. Now you know why.
 
jacob said
In gear and switch engine off. Bin there dunnit!

Try that in an EV. ;) No true N gear which is why they can't be towed either and switching off results in no brake assist, no power stearing and a lack of proper control./
 
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So much of our problems are created by us, so to sort them out needs us to change our lifestyles and watching some of these house restoration programs gives us a clue. Old semi derelict house is purchased for restoration, in it's history a family lived there and raised four kids but the new owner needs to extend because it is not large enough for him and his two kids so he wants to double the footprint. Then he wants the ability to be able to poo in any of the bedrooms so on suites all round and now you have increased water consumption, energy consumption and all for what, just so people can rattle around a large house or so they can pose for the neighbours and play keep up with the jones .
Is it still April 1st Spectric? :ROFLMAO:

Yeah it's a well known fact that you can have a shower in more than one facility at the same time, same goes for toilets.
Far more likely that poor, maybe unemployed people with one loo / bathroom use the facilities more than people at work all day using the work bogs even though they have several standing unused in their own house all day.
 
....
The covid panic would suggest that anyone who believes official statistics or those produced by a interested parties (Unions?) on any subject (police numbers etc.) is being naive or has a drum to beat.
The word 'panic' suggests a real lack of understanding of epidemiology. Or perhaps you'd rather the Govt did nothing ?
 
They aren't really an issue yet, until there is enough green energy generated to power them. They are a bit pointless, the motor trade just trying to get ahead of the game with a bit of green washing thrown in.
Given zero carbon then the private car may well be history and public transport the big issue
Or 'lack of' public transport. The private car will always be needed in a rural community.
 
Wow, is that so.
I'm not surprised. A mate of mine recently joined a company that was going to provide financing for PCP to car dealership groups. His target was £10 million. He told me that when he heard that he thought "Yeah, easy-peasy". His boss then went on to add "....per month".
 
With the issues found on new cars after a certain age then leasing makes sense, it could be more cost effective than keeping an older car and paying for the high repair cost. The days of buying an old diesel and putting over a100K miles on it are gone. My local garage has had a run of VW EGR valve assemblies on cars all around six years old and not a cheap job but if leasing for a few years and changing then you never see these problems or have to pay these bills.
I bought a new(ish) diesel car a few years ago and have put 250K miles on it. No expense spared on maintenance. Running cost per annum is currently working out at less than a fifth of what I would pay to lease hire or PCP the new equivalent. It still does exactly what it always has, then only thing that has failed and I can't be pineappled to fix is the cold weather pre heat burner. The EGR valves have been blanked and the ECU flashed accordingly.....
I honestly can see no reason why it wont do another 250K.....
Cheap credit and the throwaway attitude to everything is just another symptom of what will be the downfall of the human race; i.e Greed.
 
I used to get very high mileage from older diesels with simple pump line nozzle injection systems, now with common rail strangled by technology to meet Euro xxx emission there is just so much that goes wrong and not always easy to trace the faults. It would be much better if the manufacturers spent a bit more money on these systems rather than applying an excessive amount of cost reduction.
 
The mind boggles...
If you think that under the law you are innocent until proven guilty, this means there are no crooks or criminals on our streets because they are all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. How can you accuse someone of being a crook until they have been found guilty.
 
If you think that under the law you are innocent until proven guilty, this means there are no crooks or criminals on our streets because they are all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. How can you accuse someone of being a crook until they have been found guilty.
I don't think I accused any one of anything, but if so, mea culpa. As someone else pointed out, is it not ludicrous to spend time and money on something that will never recoup those costs, given that it's obvious before the fact?
 
If you think that under the law you are innocent until proven guilty, this means there are no crooks or criminals on our streets because they are all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. How can you accuse someone of being a crook until they have been found guilty.
The battle between logic and reality.....One might think it would be better to say to the populace "be nice to each other", than say "if you do that it's naughty but unless you have the brain power of a mollusc it's highly unlikely that you will be sanctioned for your behaviour".
 
It does make you wonder the wisdom of making a law that cannot possibly be enforced or policed.
I assumed it was because a lot of people would stop smoking in their cars without the need for enforcement. I have to say, I don't see any drivers smoking these days. Sometimes the law itself is enough. The only worry now is vaping and its long-term effects.
 
What vaping has brought home to me is how often I am walking through someone else's exhale and breathing it in, you can see where it is with vaping smoke.
 
I have a totally mad neighbour (must be he mows his lawn every 2 days summer and winter) he and wife have 2 salon and a van thing used to take dogs to shows 4 or 5 times a year. He now also has a works van for his part time job as a handyman in a caravan park. He claims to open the cars outright and the two new salons are changed every 2 years. His wife drives 8 miles a day, he uses his works van to get to work but does drive on his own 350 miles every two weeks to see family using the largest saloon. Police pensions must be pretty good.
All public sector pensions are pretty good
 
All public sector pensions are pretty good
Public sector pensions are OK, but employees do pay around 10% of their gross pay in contributions. However, the pension is, as you can imagine, guaranteed with a lump sum at retirement. I worked in the education sector for a while. I also worked in TV, private franchise, and their pension scheme was better.
 
" How can you accuse someone of being a crook until they have been found guilty?"
That's why they're a SUSPECT until conviction or otherwise. The State accuses and then tries to prove the case, not the victim. The victim of the alleged crime is merely a witness to a crime against the state.
 
On the subject of car safety, the only solution would be to manufacture cars from glass!
Really, the only solution?

So things like the following are not possible?

speed reduction
Additional training
increased policing
Age related limitations e.g. engine size and amount of passengers
smaller engines/BHP limits
speed limiters
increased use of safety barriers
decreased use of road signs (which has been proved to reduce accidents)
Improved road surfaces
Improved road markings
Car size limits
One way systems
harsher penalties for infringements e.g no MOT/insurance/driving whilst on the phone etc
Increased priority for pedestrians/cyclists
Increased technology to warn of road hazards
banning of car stereos or volume limitations (not 100% sure on this one but certain music certainly makes me drive differently and the boys with subs I can hear from a mile away certainly are being sensory deprived - and as an aside also ruining their hearing)
Public education - TV adverts etc (Don't know why they don't do this anymore? I remember ones about not going into substations or swimming in rivers)
height limits to cars eg no big suvs/4x4s unless you can prove an actual need for one. They are 50% more likely to roll in an accident and huge increase in stopping distance.

Seems like to me there are a few things we could probably do before vitrifying automobiles
 
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