Grinder recommendations - complete novice needs advice!

[stewart]

Hi all
I'm hoping to pick up a lathe from my uncle soon and have turned my mind to sharpening. At the moment I use waterstones for my hand planes and chisels - is it a good idea to have a grinder to sharpen lathe chisels on for speed - I understand that they need more sharpening than hand chisels?
If so, can anyone point me to a grinder that will do from Axminster and whether I need to buy different grinding wheels. I'm not going to stretch to a Tormek but there seems to be a very confusing choice of cheaper grinders in the Perform range. I'm going to Yandles on Friday and will probably go to Axminster as well so would like to buy one then.
Many thanks!

 

[CHJ]

If you are on a tight budget then remember the quality of the stones is more important than the motor.

Here and Hereare a couple of threads involving about the cheapest option:

No doubt if you meet up with other members at yandles they may be able to steer you as well, just watch your wallet.

 

[mr]

Hi Stewart
stay away from the Perform wet n dry jobbie
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21739&name=perform+grinder&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0
I bought one of these and returned it cos a) its water tray was broken & b) there was a huge amount of wobble on the wheel. APTC replaced it with another which had the same huge amount of wobble on the wheels. Far too much wobble to happily correct by dressing the wheel I felt so the second one went back. Axminsters reply to my query re how much "wobble" is acceptable was that this model is for hobbyists and an almost audible shrug of the shoulders. I may just have been unlucky but then I salavaged an old hilka 6 inch from a relative and despite being old and cheap it runs vibration and wobble free.
Cheers Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Stewart,

I recently bought the Record Power 8" version. It has one wide white wheel and one grey wheel. I use the white wheel for the chisels and the grey wheel for the axes. It's the best thing I've bought in ages and I can't understand why I didn't buy one earlier. It cost 45 quid but is normally a little cheaper at the shows.

I don't have any jigs and the tool rest is rubbish. I quite enjoy trying to sharpen without the jigs (they're too expensive anyway).

Dave

 

[jaymar]

I bought a Record 8" grinder at a show for £40 and made a jig similar to the wolverine jig, works really well and no more blue tips with the jig. I also adapted the long grind jig to go with it.

 

[Adam]

I bought this one, but as yet, can't comment on it as I've never used it once.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -22812.htm

Hopefully, it'll be unpacked and into the workshop shortly.

Adam

 

[TEP]

Hi Stewart.

The grinder Adam mentioned is a good buy. Don't forget if you buy a cheaper grey stone grinder it can cost you between £15 - £20 to replace one of the wheels with a decent one, either white or red.

For turning tools a 3/4" or 1" wide wheel is fine, if you want to go wider OK, but in my experience you don't need to.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[greggy]

hi stewart, if money is no object then the tormek is the best i have used for sharpening (allsorts). just my 2 penneth

 

[stewart]

Thanks for the advice, all.
I think I'll have a look out for the Record one at Yandles on Friday. Money is an object so the Tormek will have to wait a while :shock:

 

[Paul.J]

Hello Stewart.
I use a wet stone,but sort of copied the Tormek by buying just the parts that i needed,(see piccy)was sharpening plane blades and chisels at the time,but find it will also sharpen my turning tools just as good,as to be done more by hand than with the jigs though,but you can use the support bar to get a good rest for sharpening.
Hope this helps too.



Paul.J.

 

[stewart]

More food for thought, Paul!
many thanks

 

[MrJay]

You'll be wanting to sharpen little and often. Like with a scraper it's the burr that does the cutting.

Get on ebay and hunt out a hand powered grinding wheel or two. The extra control you gain far outweighs the inconvenience of having to turn a handle and there is reduced danger of terrible injury or mishap as an added bonus. Also they tend to go for 99p.

You will need to think about wheels and home made jigs and things.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Mr Jay

You'll be wanting to sharpen little and often. Like with a scraper it's the burr that does the cutting.

Get on ebay and hunt out a hand powered grinding wheel or two. The extra control you gain far outweighs the inconvenience of having to turn a handle and there is reduced danger of terrible injury or mishap as an added bonus. Also they tend to go for 99p.

You will need to think about wheels and home made jigs and things.

This is a serious question as I know nothing about turning or hand grinding, apart from the fact that all of the turning tools tend to be rather large. How easy is it to control the process when using a hand grinder?

Cheers
Neil

 

[TEP]

MrJay wrote:
You'll be wanting to sharpen little and often. Like with a scraper it's the burr that does the cutting.

Get on ebay and hunt out a hand powered grinding wheel or two. The extra control you gain far outweighs the inconvenience of having to turn a handle and there is reduced danger of terrible injury or mishap as an added bonus. Also they tend to go for 99p.
You will need to think about wheels and home made jigs and things.


I sharpen all my turning tools by hand from a movable flat table. I only use a jig on my long grind bowl gouge to keep the edge consistent.

I consider myself to be reasonably proficient at sharpening and I use two hands. I'm not saying it is impossible to sharpen tools on a hand grinder using one hand, but I would like to see it, and also being able to keep a reasonable bevel throughout.

It would be extremely difficult, and for a new comer to turning, almost impossible. IMO!

 

[paulm]

Like with a scraper it's the burr that does the cutting.

It's only scrapers that cut with a burr, and that's often debated with many turners preferring to remove the burr. Other tools, the majority, don't use a burr, for example, gouges, skews, parting tools etc.

I also doubt the suitability of a hand grinder for most of these unless you have an array of jigs to lock the tools in place.

Most turners get by fine with a cheap 6" powered grinder, and a decent white Norton stone, say 80 or 100 grit.

If you really get keen then a Tormek or similar is better still, but not necessary.

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Steve Russell]

Hello Stewart,

Sharpening is one of the most important techniques you will master in woodturning. While I cannot offer specific advice on UK model grinders, I can offer some tips on selecting a good setup to insure you can sharpen your woodturning chisels effectively. As others have pointed out, the Tormek system is excellent. If you are going to start out with a dry grinder, I would opt for the following setup:

Size: 8"
Speed: Variable (1800-3600RPM), or if purchasing a single speed grinder, a slow speed unit (1800RPM+-)
Wheels: White, Tan, Red (Aluminum Oxide) or Blue SG(Ceramic Based, Seeded Gel) The battleship grey wheels can be used in a pinch, but are not made to sharpen HSS. The least expensive AO wheels are white and are fine for most hobby woodturners. The blue ceramic (Norton Abrasives) wheels are the most expensive, but are state-of-the-art dry grinding wheels for HSS and are worth the cost if you can afford them. In the U.S., they cost about $100.00 each in the 8"x1" size.
Hardness: I like "K" the best, but "J" also is very good.
Lights: If the grinder incorporates a good lamp, great! If not, add a flex arm lamp to clearly light the grinding area.
Dresser: Get a good diamond dresser to keep the wheels clean and flat.

That is a general list, which you may alter to fit your specific situation. Also, when your budget allows it, add a manufactured jig system to easily sharpen your chisels and keep accurate, consistent bevels on all of your tools. There are numerous jigs on the market. I like and use the Kelton Sharpening Jig, the Oneway Wolverine Jig, The Woodcut Tru-Grind Jig and the Tormek System.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Also, the education library on my website offers lots of free articles on woodturning that you may be interested in, including an article on selecting and sharpening woodturning tools. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!

 

[CHJ]

...snip..
It would be extremely difficult, and for a new comer to turning, almost impossible. IMO!

Just my feelings on the subject Tam, but I refrained to post my immediate reaction to the what I consider a totaly inappropriate comment in a thread asking for help.

Learning the hand skills necessary to achieve a consistent continuous bevel is difficult enough without adding the totally variable cutting performance of a hand cranked stone.

The comment about the burr being the cutting edge is also very misleading.
A gouge needs a fine sharp sharp edge just like any other chisel or planer blade, the need for the finest edge is open to debate due to the speed with which the cutting speed/forces dull it, IMO the better the steel the more value there is in obtaining the finite edge as it will last a little longer, but the 'as ground' edge from a normal white stone cuts with ease, if not the best of finishes, certainly well within the surface expectations from differing wood types.

A burr is used on scrapers to obtain a fine finish, in my limited experience it is only of any use when using them in a shear scraping mode.

The burr produced from grinding is of very little use as it fails almost immediately on wood contact. The only time I can get a burr to last any length of time is when I deliberately produce one as you would on a cabinet scraper by burnishing the cutting edge on a cobalt pin. This takes considerable force and results in a burr that appears to be 'work hardened' due to the roll forming of the edge and lasts a little longer. But IMO not something a newcomer, or most turners for that matter would ever need to do.

 

[CHJ]

Welcome to the forum Steve, always good to have new input and the advice of the more experienced to stop us from becoming too isolated in our own little world.

 

[NickWelford]

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Also, the education library on my website offers lots of free articles on woodturning that you may be interested in, including an article on selecting and sharpening woodturning tools. Good luck to you and best wishes in all of your woodturning endeavors!

Hi Steve and welcome - what brings you into this neck of the woods?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve,

nice website. Loads of stuff for me to read through. I've already signed up for the newsletter.

Dave