Customs declarations and brexit

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Remainers seem to be under some illusion that Boris is going to be Prime Minister forever and we can't vote at the next election for the change we want to see (we can even send a message to politicians when we vote on the 6th May). That could be increase regulations is some areas, lower regulations where we want them

That's sadly untrue.

I live in a 20,000 Tory majority. My vote means nothing.
Very few people can make any difference......this claim of democracy is very much untrue.

In any case political influence can be wielded by the wealthy by lobbying government or handing out sweeteners....and we have a media pretty much owned by billionaires.


This idea of democracy in the UK is very naive.
 
The last paragraph is actually the difference between remainers and leavers. Remainers believe only the EU can do good things and introduce good regulations, brexiteers want to be able to vote for the people who make the laws and decide which rules we want and don't want.
Absolute nonsense - how could anybody get it so wrong? o_O
We have abandoned our power in Europe to make laws and decide which rules we want or don't want. We will still be subject to EU rules if we want to trade with them but will have no say in their creation.
Though of course there will be negotiation but from a disadvantaged and weakened brexit position
Remainers seem to be under some illusion that Boris is going to be Prime Minister forever and we can't vote at the next election for the change we want to see (we can even send a message to politicians when we vote on the 6th May). That could be increase regulations is some areas, lower regulations where we want them.
Also nonsense. Whatever the next governments position we still will be in a weakened position in all negotiations with the EU - our largest trading partner. We will have no direct input into any regulations they want to impose, or to their reaction to any regulation we which want to change.

And the question remains unanswered - can anybody point to a brexit benefit affecting us now, in contrast to the obvious dis-benefits widely reported (fisherman et al), bearing in mind we had an "oven ready deal", 5 years of planning and negotiations, not to mention the years before the referendum when the issue was being given much thought?
The answer seems to be absolutely nothing, zero, sweet FA, not a sausage.

That reminds me what happened to the much trumpeted sausage-meat deal with Taiwan?
 
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extrapolation, jacob. Someone who gets titillations out of saying the same thing over and over to the same group is bordering on an oppositional disorder. Especially when they fail to see anything else other than what they're promoting.

Or my real label - one that got me sent to "time out" in jr high (1 hour of suspension and no class credit). Instigating.

Everyone disagrees with me. You haven't provided any legitimate challenge to anything I've looked at. There are professional furniture makers who have (their view is often that the opportunity to use hand tools in paying work that actually has to put food on the table is limited and back and forth. For example, surface planing, etc, gives way to heavy duty sanding regimens because most customers just don't care at all.

As far as your assertions about what saves time and what doesn't in sharpening, you just don't know what you're talking about because of lack of experience. But knowing little makes it easy to be sure that I'm wrong about that looking through your lens. It's my wheelhouse. The difference between you and me is I don't talk about making bannisters, rails, etc, because I've made a couple but I'll leave talking about what should be to people who have made 300.

I try to focus on competence. Sometimes that makes someone not so bold outside of their wheelhouse (I'm not). We recently had a professional lecture in my area of practice (White collar) where we're very technical and the consequences of being wrong are high. The paid speaker obviously lives in a world that's not like this, because she kept saying over and over, "confidence beats competence every time". I think she's lacking exposure to a world that isn't sales related where poor work doesn't lose a sale, it gets you sued. But your insistence on specific things that would be far better with not much modification reminds me of that speech.
:ROFLMAO: You need to free yourself from this "oppositional disorder" delusion. You never know, you could be wrong about some things!
It's an entertaining idea though - opposition as a "disorder". Sinister too - have you read "1984"?
PS or "Catch 22"? First symptom of onset of "oppositional disorder" is believing that people who disagree with you have "oppositional disorders". o_O
 
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I am sorry, I respectfully say you could not be more wrong.
You have fallen into the trap of political tribalism.

I am no fan of the EU and never have been - I am hugely critical of the structural failings of the Euro, the flaws of the CAP, the economic stagnation of Southern Europe and many other things.


We have always been able to vote for the people who make laws and decide what rules we want and don't want.
EU membership allowed the UK do carry out its domestic politics as and how it wanted.
Have a think about all the political decisions over the years made here....how many couldn't we do due to EU membership?
I didn't mean to suggest we couldn't make our own laws inside the EU. There are many things we can/did do while in the EU. I was objecting to the suggestion that only the EU can make "good laws" and that the UK would always want to lower standards and rules. They can increase and lower standards and laws BUT they'd get punished at the ballot box if the people didn't like the changes.
 
I didn't mean to suggest we couldn't make our own laws inside the EU. There are many things we can/did do while in the EU. I was objecting to the suggestion that only the EU can make "good laws" and that the UK would always want to lower standards and rules. They can increase and lower standards and laws BUT they'd get punished at the ballot box if the people didn't like the changes.
Who suggested that? Apart from you...
 
Who suggested that? Apart from you...

It's been mentioned a bunch of times across both Brexit threads that our rights and standards could be reduced. Jacob upvoted this post but himself has suggested that multiple times.

And RobinBHM mentioned deregulation in the post I quoted.
 
It's been mentioned a bunch of times across both Brexit threads that our rights and standards could be reduced. Jacob upvoted this post but himself has suggested that multiple times.

And RobinBHM mentioned deregulation in the post I quoted.
I think it's true that deregulation and lowering of standards is the goal of many brexiters, but that's hardly the same as suggesting that only the EU can make good laws. The UK can make good laws, whether they do or will us another question.
 
That's sadly untrue.

I live in a 20,000 Tory majority. My vote means nothing.
Very few people can make any difference......this claim of democracy is very much untrue.

In any case political influence can be wielded by the wealthy by lobbying government or handing out sweeteners....and we have a media pretty much owned by billionaires.


This idea of democracy in the UK is very naive.
The fact the UK voted for Brexit shows we have democracy. Pretty much all politicians, media, billionaires, world leaders and big companies wanted to remain in the EU.

We do have quite a bit of crony capitalism going on but when "the people" speak they speak loudly. UKIP getting a huge % of the vote share in 2015, the Brexit vote and the public punishing Labour in the polls after the vote should be warnings to politicians not to go against the wishes of the public if they want to keep their jobs after the next election.
 
It's been mentioned a bunch of times across both Brexit threads that our rights and standards could be reduced. Jacob upvoted this post but himself has suggested that multiple times.

And RobinBHM mentioned deregulation in the post I quoted.
"De regulation" has been top of the Brexit agenda from the start, surely you noticed this - all the stuff about getting rid of red tape etc? No suggestion anywhere of improved/better/increased regulation.
 
The fact the UK voted for Brexit shows we have democracy. .....
The fact that only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit with a tiny 4% majority, should also be born in mind.
 
The fact the UK voted for Brexit shows we have democracy. Pretty much all politicians, media, billionaires, world leaders and big companies wanted to remain in the EU.

We do have quite a bit of crony capitalism going on but when "the people" speak they speak loudly. UKIP getting a huge % of the vote share in 2015, the Brexit vote and the public punishing Labour in the polls after the vote should be warnings to politicians not to go against the wishes of the public if they want to keep their jobs after the next election.

What about the NIP? Where was democracy then? Where was the consent that is a fundamental element of the GFA?
 
The fact the UK voted for Brexit shows we have democracy. Pretty much all politicians, media, billionaires, world leaders and big companies wanted to remain in the EU.
....apart from the billionaires that own The Mail, The Sun, and The Express; who have spent years telling the public that the EU are the bogeymen, and that we'd be better off leaving.

We do have quite a bit of crony capitalism going on but when "the people" speak they speak loudly. UKIP getting a huge % of the vote share in 2015, the Brexit vote and the public punishing Labour in the polls after the vote should be warnings to politicians not to go against the wishes of the public if they want to keep their jobs after the next election.
Problem is, "the people" were fed a diet of anti-EU propaganda for years, then were presented with a string of attractive sounding claims about how great things would be if we left. None of it was true mind, but that doesn't matter; it worked.

As Aaron Banks said; "The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally", and "We were not above using alternative methods to punch home our message or lead people up the garden path if we had to".
 
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That's sadly untrue.

I live in a 20,000 Tory majority. My vote means nothing.
Very few people can make any difference......this claim of democracy is very much untrue.
This idea of democracy in the UK is very naive.

There are/were labour strongholds here in the North East where they could put up a monkey and get it elected with huge majorities, in fact they did! o_O Some of them got a hell of a shock in the last general election when those areas which had never been anything but labour turned blue overnight, one of the strongest with previous huge majority retained the labour vote only by the skin of his teeth so people can make a difference but only if they really want to and can be bothered to get off their collective backsides and put a cross in the box!
 
The fact that only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit with a tiny 4% majority, should also be born in mind.
Unfortunately that's not really a valid point in the outcome itself; the percentage turnout was higher than it's been for several general elections, and the rules of the referendum were a simple "winner by most votes". I can criticize the deception of the campaigning, but the reality is that the actual vote was won fair and square by the rules of the referendum.

You could then argue that, as the vote was close, the ambiguity of what had been promised should have lead to a fairly soft Brexit, but as even some who voted for Brexit found - they didn't get what they were expecting (e.g. some of the Brits in Spain getting kicked out). But I guess that was another clever bit of leave campaigning - be sufficiently vague that voters could form their own mental picture of what they were going to "win".
 
And the question remains unanswered - can anybody point to a brexit benefit affecting us now, in contrast to the obvious dis-benefits widely reported (fisherman et al), bearing in mind we had an "oven ready deal", 5 years of planning and negotiations, not to mention the years before the referendum when the issue was being given much thought?
The answer seems to be absolutely nothing, zero, sweet FA, not a sausage.
 
You could then argue that, as the vote was close, the ambiguity of what had been promised should have lead to a fairly soft Brexit, but as even some who voted for Brexit found - they didn't get what they were expecting (e.g. some of the Brits in Spain getting kicked out). But I guess that was another clever bit of leave campaigning - be sufficiently vague that voters could form their own mental picture of what they were going to "win".

It was remain MP's who prevented a soft Brexit. When Theresa May was PM there was plenty of routes to a soft Brexit but remainers instead focused on a second referendum. The two rounds of indicative votes are a good example of that.
 
And the question remains unanswered - can anybody point to a brexit benefit affecting us now, in contrast to the obvious dis-benefits widely reported (fisherman et al), bearing in mind we had an "oven ready deal", 5 years of planning and negotiations, not to mention the years before the referendum when the issue was being given much thought?
The answer seems to be absolutely nothing, zero, sweet FA, not a sausage.
I asked the same thing a while back. A bit of name-calling and some vague stuff about freedom of movement and sovereignty...
 
I asked the same thing a while back. A bit of name-calling and some vague stuff about freedom of movement and sovereignty...
and not joining the euro - which we weren't going to anyway.
We are entitled to ask - it's been 5 years since the decision, many years before that in the making and latterly the promise of an oven ready deal.
It's happened, we are here, it appears to be stillborn, dead as a dodo. We are now into the post mortem.
 
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