Customs declarations and brexit

[PUtcvNqa]

The Pfizer vaccine was (mostly) funded by the EU, yet EU has exported 13 millions doses to the UK.

The big issue here is the UK government blaming "vaccine nationalism", yet they have a contract that prevent any export until they have a full vaccination. Isnt that vaccine nationalism ?

The pot calling the kettle black...

thought it was the the German govt that gave some funding to BioNtech (and CureVac)-
yanks committed to a couple of billion in orders and of course we got it approved quicker (and ordered).

Seems there's some very disappointed folk about that the UK rollout has gone well and the EU has been such a shambles
- even to point of some old pony about filling in the wrong form

 

[Jacob]

thought it was the the German govt that gave some funding to BioNtech (and CureVac)-
yanks committed to a couple of billion in orders and of course we got it approved quicker (and ordered).

Seems there's some very disappointed folk about that the UK rollout has gone well and the EU has been such a shambles
- even to point of some old pony about filling in the wrong form

Not disappointed at all - I had jab one weeks ago and expecting jab two any day now.

 

[RobinBHM]

This has actually made the point for AlanY to be honest. I saw a few weeks ago an MP suggesting that if the EU can't be relied on to honour contracts in a crisis we need to look again at essential products and services and bringing them back to the UK. An possible future energy crisis and EDF were specifically mentioned as an example

As I said, that ship has well and truly sailed.

We can't bring back such services to the UK....this country no longer has the expertise.

And Brexit will only accelerate that.....the drop in value of sterling has left UK vulnerable to foreign investment...looking to buy up cheap investments.

 

[pidgeonpost]

At a time when nations are increasingly interconnected and often interdependent, I find it intriguing to consider the idea that we can just bring everything back in-house and gain independence from 'foreigners'. It's largely 'foreigners' who make our tools, grow our food, design and build our cars, not to mention those who work in the UK and contribute to our economy.
The pandemic has revealed some of the best and worst of human behaviour, but if we're to survive as a race we'd better get used to the idea that international cooperation is essential.
If you're at a loose end have a listen to
Noam Chomsky speaking on the 'Today' programme recently, around 45 minutes in.
The greedy scramble for vaccines by wealthy nations is not a good look.

 

[powertools]

The Pfizer vaccine was (mostly) funded by the EU, yet EU has exported 13 millions doses to the UK.

The big issue here is the UK government blaming "vaccine nationalism", yet they have a contract that prevent any export until they have a full vaccination. Isnt that vaccine nationalism ?

The pot calling the kettle black...

Someone suggested that all vaccines were a product of the EU and I was pointing out that the AZ vax was a product developed in the UK with UK finance and is being made in a factory in the EU that has been given funding to expand production to supply the UK. I did not suggest that the EU have done nothing other than being late to give contracts to companies.

 

[powertools]

That is 180 degrees wrong. We could not have been made to join the Euro as an existing MS. We had a veto and exercised an opt out.

We will now end up joining it when we rejoin in a decade or three, because it is mandatory for new entrants.

I am well aware of what the situation was at the time but if the UK had given a mandate to remain within the EU that would have been the ideal time for things to change.

 

[John Brown]

This thread demonstrates one of the worst outcomes of Brexit - division. That division seems to have percolated through the whole of our society. Frequently it manifests itself in ways which are unpleasant, nasty, and often childish and cruel. It's corrosive, and it's difficult to see how that is benefitting us at the simple level of this forum, let alone at a national level.

To be fair, the same crowd used to pick on Jacob before the referendum. It seems to be water off a duck's back to him, which is probably really irritating to the bullies, and why they keep at it.

 

[Jacob]

To be fair, the same crowd used to pick on Jacob before the referendum. It seems to be water off a duck's back to him, which is probably really irritating to the bullies, and why they keep at it.

Yep tis water off me back - I see it as missionary work!
Seriously though - these things need talking about and it's as relevant here as anywhere else, as part of an ongoing national conversation. A very diverse bunch here, which makes it more interesting.

 

[D_W]

To be fair, the same crowd used to pick on Jacob before the referendum. It seems to be water off a duck's back to him, which is probably really irritating to the bullies, and why they keep at it.

IT probably irritates him, too. But I think you're discounting the fact that people with oppositional disorders have the urge to keep doing what jacob does, too, even if the result of the discussion gets them frustrated sometimes.

Not saying jacob has one, but I probably do a little (or more the tendency to wait and check before just agreeing and then disagree freely if something doesn't make sense), and I know a few folks who have kids who have clinical oppositional disorders. They're tough to be around if you have kids who even half listen!!

 

[sploo]

At a time when nations are increasingly interconnected and often interdependent, I find it intriguing to consider the idea that we can just bring everything back in-house and gain independence from 'foreigners'. It's largely 'foreigners' who make our tools, grow our food, design and build our cars, not to mention those who work in the UK and contribute to our economy.

Ah yes, but you're using rational thinking, and logical conjecture based on facts and available evidence. None of that has a place in a Brexit debate, sadly.

 

[sploo]

I suggested Sploo was a bit of a wally for thinking there was no class system in the UK and he basically agreed and reworded his statement.

*polite cough*

That's not what I said (on either point). Read the posts again.

 

[John Brown]

IT probably irritates him, too. But I think you're discounting the fact that people with oppositional disorders have the urge to keep doing what jacob does, too, even if the result of the discussion gets them frustrated sometimes.

Not saying jacob has one, but I probably do a little (or more the tendency to wait and check before just agreeing and then disagree freely if something doesn't make sense), and I know a few folks who have kids who have clinical oppositional disorders. They're tough to be around if you have kids who even half listen!!

As always, you have friends who corroborate or support your theories.
It's a useful, if somewhat transparent device.

 

[Jacob]

IT probably irritates him, too. But I think you're discounting the fact that people with oppositional disorders have the urge to keep doing what jacob does, too, even if the result of the discussion gets them frustrated sometimes.

Not saying jacob has one, but I probably do a little (or more the tendency to wait and check before just agreeing and then disagree freely if something doesn't make sense), and I know a few folks who have kids who have clinical oppositional disorders. They're tough to be around if you have kids who even half listen!!

Interesting (vaguely). So you think anybody who disagrees with or challenges anything you say, has an "oppositional disorder"?
Have you talked to anybody about this problem?

 

[D_W]

Interesting (vaguely). So you think anybody who disagrees with or challenges anything you say, has an "oppositional disorder"?
Have you talked to anybody about this?

extrapolation, jacob. Someone who gets titillations out of saying the same thing over and over to the same group is bordering on an oppositional disorder. Especially when they fail to see anything else other than what they're promoting.

Or my real label - one that got me sent to "time out" in jr high (1 hour of suspension and no class credit). Instigating.

Everyone disagrees with me. You haven't provided any legitimate challenge to anything I've looked at. There are professional furniture makers who have (their view is often that the opportunity to use hand tools in paying work that actually has to put food on the table is limited and back and forth. For example, surface planing, etc, gives way to heavy duty sanding regimens because most customers just don't care at all.

As far as your assertions about what saves time and what doesn't in sharpening, you just don't know what you're talking about because of lack of experience. But knowing little makes it easy to be sure that I'm wrong about that looking through your lens. It's my wheelhouse. The difference between you and me is I don't talk about making bannisters, rails, etc, because I've made a couple but I'll leave talking about what should be to people who have made 300.

I try to focus on competence. Sometimes that makes someone not so bold outside of their wheelhouse (I'm not). We recently had a professional lecture in my area of practice (White collar) where we're very technical and the consequences of being wrong are high. The paid speaker obviously lives in a world that's not like this, because she kept saying over and over, "confidence beats competence every time". I think she's lacking exposure to a world that isn't sales related where poor work doesn't lose a sale, it gets you sued. But your insistence on specific things that would be far better with not much modification reminds me of that speech.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Also, from my understanding this isn't quite true. The contract with AZ and the UK was signed the day before BUT the UK signed a contract with Oxford well before a producer of the vaccine (in this case AZ) was decided.
" The contract the European Commission negotiated together with the EU Member States was approved on 14 August and entered into force on 27 August. "
The contract the UK signed with Oxford was in June.

And on that point the case revolved, whether a contract signed with another party was valid here. One side said yes, the other no (because otherwise you wouldn't have a case, you'd have two people with no dispute ).
Which is why I said contract law had been through the wringer - if it had just been outright broken, we'd be using very different words!

 

[RobinBHM]

I find it intriguing to consider the idea that we can just bring everything back in-house and gain independence from 'foreigners

I think it rather sums up the difference between the Brexit dream and the Brexit reality.

Bringing manufacturing expertise back in house is a good ideal. I for one would applaud a long term vision where massive investment was put into technical colleges. This country also needs professional managers, not the old boys network.

But the reality is that Brexit enables deregulation, so we will see free market libertarian groups carving up UK businesses and public contracts for the personal gain of a few. That won't bring expertise back in house.

 

[RobinBHM]

The pandemic has revealed some of the best and worst of human behaviour, but if we're to survive as a race we'd better get used to the idea that international cooperation is essential

I find it rather disheartening that those who are complaining the EU are engaging in "vaccine nationalism".....refuse to acknowledge the UK wouldn't have got very far without all the vaccines coming from the EU.
The UK should be thankful the EU have exported so many vaccines

As pleased as I am about the UKs progress, I look at the news about the huge rise in cases in France and elsewhere with a great concern....personally I really hope their vaccine factories get on stream very soon.

 

[silentsam]

I think it rather sums up the difference between the Brexit dream and the Brexit reality.

Bringing manufacturing expertise back in house is a good ideal. I for one would applaud a long term vision where massive investment was put into technical colleges. This country also needs professional managers, not the old boys network.

But the reality is that Brexit enables deregulation, so we will see free market libertarian groups carving up UK businesses and public contracts for the personal gain of a few. That won't bring expertise back in house.

The last paragraph is actually the difference between remainers and leavers. Remainers believe only the EU can do good things and introduce good regulations, brexiteers want to be able to vote for the people who make the laws and decide which rules we want and don't want.

Remainers seem to be under some illusion that Boris is going to be Prime Minister forever and we can't vote at the next election for the change we want to see (we can even send a message to politicians when we vote on the 6th May). That could be increase regulations is some areas, lower regulations where we want them.

 

[silentsam]

I find it rather disheartening that those who are complaining the EU are engaging in "vaccine nationalism".....refuse to acknowledge the UK wouldn't have got very far without all the vaccines coming from the EU.
The UK should be thankful the EU have exported so many vaccines

As pleased as I am about the UKs progress, I look at the news about the huge rise in cases in France and elsewhere with a great concern....personally I really hope their vaccine factories get on stream very soon.

Hopefully by the summer we should have plenty of vaccines to share with them and the rest of the world. We still seem to be ramping up production in the UK massively, despite many of the new vaccines and factories set to come online after we should have (hopefully) vaccinated everyone in the UK.

I see this as similar to how it works during a plane crash, you should put your lifejacket/mask on first before you help anyone else, even your children... you can't help anyone if you are dying yourself. In my opinion we are quickly coming to the point where we can begin to help other countries much more as we are nearing on most of the vulnerable being vaccinated.

 

[RobinBHM]

The last paragraph is actually the difference between remainers and leavers. Remainers believe only the EU can do good things and introduce good regulations, brexiteers want to be able to vote for the people who make the laws and decide which rules we want and don't want

I am sorry, I respectfully say you could not be more wrong.
You have fallen into the trap of political tribalism.

I am no fan of the EU and never have been - I am hugely critical of the structural failings of the Euro, the flaws of the CAP, the economic stagnation of Southern Europe and many other things.


We have always been able to vote for the people who make laws and decide what rules we want and don't want.
EU membership allowed the UK do carry out its domestic politics as and how it wanted.
Have a think about all the political decisions over the years made here....how many couldn't we do due to EU membership?