Wadkin AGS 10

[Antonym]

Hallo all 1st post so I hope its in the right place.
I bought the above in a somewhat neglected state and after some TLC all's good.Exceptfor one problem. The micr adjuster on the fence has lost most of its teeth
I've done a search and find 2 places that sell it. Strangely for exactly the same, to my mind, exorbitant price of £139.50 and then have the temerity to demand p & p for this small item of £12
And they've had them up for sale, 10 of them for about 2 years. Greedy b......rs
Bushes ,knob &shaft all fine but not splines.
So does anyone have a 2 bushed micro adjuster at a reasonable price. I know they're rare but over £ 150??

 

[ChaiLatte]

Bushes ,knob & shaft all fine but not splines.

You call them 'splines', but that is not the correct terminology.

Splines work with a male and female part, like the PTO on a tractor or the propshaft going into the gearbox of a car.

It is a gear that meshes with a rack. Count the teeth on it and measure the outside diameter very accurately. Then we can determine its specification and perhaps find an alternative source for it.

An alternative to measuring the gear is to measure over at least 20 teeth of the rack.

 

[Doug B]

Welcome to the joys of old English cast iron woodworking machinery

 

[Against_The_Grain]

That'll have been Advanced Machinery Services, also known as "Wadkin Bursgreen", well known across the industry for being quite expensive when it comes to parts with a "Either you want it or you don't" attitude.

You could always send a few emails to machinery dealers who deal in secondhand machinery and servicing such as Calderbrook, Scott & Sargent, Daltons Wadkin (an entirely different company to AMS), as they may have a new part sitting on the shelf from decades ago or have broken up a machine for spare parts, it's surprising what you can find when you ring around but I would expect it to still be expensive.

As mentioned above if you can figure out what the gear is you could possibly find an off the shelf match, but more than likely you will need to machine a gear of the same diameter and pitch to fit on your shaft exactly the same as the old one. I suspect if it's the earlier AGS with the front to back fence it's likely to be an imperial diametral pitch (DP) gear, and the later ones with the front mounting fence a metric module (MOD) gear.

 

[Cabinetman]

Hi Antoym and welcome, nice bit of kit, I have one on my Sedgwick but rarely ever use it, I would suggest using it for a while and see if you miss it.
Ian

 

[deema]

Which vintage of the Wadkin do you have? Old one with two bars the fence rides on, or the newer with a single bar?

 

[ChaiLatte]

I suspect if it's the earlier AGS with the front to back fence it's likely to be an imperial diametral pitch (DP) gear, and the later ones with the front mounting fence a metric module (MOD) gear.

Given that the gear meshes with a rack, which produces linear movement, it is entirely possible that it is neither of these, but a circular pitch gear.

The different mounts of the fence could be irrelevant. Only if the part to which the rack is fixed (or into which the rack is machined) changed over the years is the rack spec. likely to change.

---

For all the price complainers, make a comparison with some other consumer good. Is the annual world market for the part comparable with a can of beans? Is the annual world demand for the part comparable with the demand for a Bugatti Veyron? My guess is that more of the cars are sold per year than the saw part. Wadkin is a business. Be thankful they are still selling parts for long-obsolete machines.

How much would it cost to have one made by an engineering firm?

 

[Against_The_Grain]

The different mounts of the fence could be irrelevant. Only if the part to which the rack is fixed (or into which the rack is machined) changed over the years is the rack spec. likely to change.

The difference is the earlier AGS saws with the front to back fence were mostly made with imperial bolts and measures except for the very last ones of that version which some came with a metric rule on the fence rod, the later ones with the front mounted fence were entirely metric. So one could assume they also went from an imperial to a metric rack and gear.

Wadkin is a business. Be thankful they are still selling parts for long-obsolete machines.

Wadkin are long gone, you have AMS that bought the Wadkin Bursgreen name and the intellectual property rights, they profiteer off selling spares at ridiculous prices, even off the shelf parts like belts and bearings are marked up at around 300%. If you ever have to deal with them you'll realise how vicious they are.

Daltons bought the Wadkin name and became Daltons Wadkin, they still produce some of the later Wadkin machines in Britain and are a far better company to deal with.

 

[deema]

The reason for asking which vintage of machine it is, is that @J-G was brilliant at determining the micro adjust gear dimensions in this thread that I started some time ago. To make a micro adjust takes a fair bit of time on a manual lathe and a mill.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/wadkin-ags-fine-fence-adjust-dimensions-help.122173/page-1

 

[ChaiLatte]

To make a micro adjust takes a fair bit of time on a manual lathe and a mill.

Thanks for highlighting that thread. The information the OP needs is therein but a little deeply obscured.

The part is low duty cycle, low load, low rpm, low power. Almost anything with the correct number of teeth would do. In the real world where the part will be used, 32DP and 0.8MOD are for all practical purposes interchangable.

Cutter is £16 posted here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325656091549https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325656065723

they profiteer off selling spares at ridiculous prices, even off the shelf parts like belts and bearings are marked up at around 300%.

That statement is irrelevant. We are not discussing an off-the-shelf part here. We are discussing a bespoke, specialised part. 300% markup might be reasonable for something you will only sell one of in a year.

You are at liberty to make your purchases where best suits your pocket and time. Many places (especially corporate buyers) do not have the time or inclination for this - they want a one-stop-shop with whom they can place a blanket order for anything related to the machine, receive it in one delivery and pay one invoice.

If I asked you to keep stuff in stock that is not your core product line, would you do that for free - buy a belt from Brammer, add it to your stock control system, keep it on your shelf, package it up and send it to me out of the goodness of your heart?

 

[deema]

The bushes are around £5 each, the handle is another £5 for a M6 blind hole 50mm star knob. The in gear cutter is around £25, so your around £40 of material before you start. It took me around 1/2 day to make a part, the longest time is spent setting up. Thats excluding the cost of a milling machine, lathe, tooling (some form of rotary indexing head and tail stock, plus cutter holders etc etc) measuring equipment. I have made and sold on occasions the micro adjusters, and can totally see why they retail at the price they do from the two Wadkin company’s selling spares.
To make them commercially I would use a CNC lathe with a driven head and bar feeder, which isn’t a cheap setup! Its going to be a very slow moving stock item, probably one or less stock turns a year, so yes, commercially I would want at least 300% margin, if not more to make it economically sensible.

 

[Antonym]

Thanks for all the replies. they seem to vary. from that's a perfectly reasonable price and I'll sit on it if it takes decades to sell,l to you want, we've got , be grateful we'll let you have it. Feels more like blackmail than business to me. Probably accountant driven.
still looking and hopefully I'll find one at a sensible price

 

[Sideways]

The bit you're looking for is the bit that's worn out on all the old Wadkin saws. Good luck with the hunt but many people have been down that road before you.

 

[mccpe]

If it was me, I’d probably try tig brazing onto the gear to build up the worn area and then spend some time with files to recreate the teeth. Gas brazing would also work, so would mig or tig welding, but braze will be easier to file.

 

[deema]

Just out of curiousity, what do you consider a ‘sensible price’?

 

[Antonym]

Just out of curiousity, what do you consider a ‘sensible price’?

Around half what's being asked.

 

[Antonym]

I've got some pieces of Brazilian rosewood. Ive had them for nearly 40 years. they are 40mm x 40 x 640mm sawn.
I think the time has come to let someone else have them and make use of them..
I've searched but can't find any comparable sized pieces to get an idea of value.
Anybody got an idea?

 

[deema]

Brazillian Rosewood is CITIES registered, I’m not absolutely certain, but I believe it’s illegal to trade these days Except if it was made into something before 1947. So I’d say it’s completely worthless.

 

[Antonym]

Registered CITES 1992. My understanding is that it is not possible to move sell or transport cross country borders without CITES .
however look on eBay Etsy & many guitar materials suppliers and you will find lots for sale.. Nearly all pre '92 & without CITES.
Whilst I wholeheartedly support CITES I feel that wood from trees harvested long before CITES originated, can & is being sold, albeit in very small quantities. Personally, to ban this minuscule trade and burn/destroy what there is , seems to me to be officialdom gone insane.
So thanks derma for your reply but not entirely accurate

 

[okeydokey]

If it was me, I’d probably try tig brazing onto the gear to build up the worn area and then spend some time with files to recreate the teeth. Gas brazing would also work, so would mig or tig welding, but braze will be easier to file.

Thats what I would do if I had the gear.
Would a JB Weld product do the job? its pretty tough