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Wadkin AGS 10 restoration

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Deadeye

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Hello all! My name is Michal and im from Poland!
First at all i would like to apologize for my bad english. (im trying to not use google translator)

I found this forum looking around in google informations about this saw. First topic that i found was about restoration of Wadkin AGS 10 by ManowarDave. Thanks to that i knew how to undress ;) my saw.

Few weeks ago i become a happy owner of Wadkin AGS 10.

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missing blade guard

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As u see some bandit wanted to make somethin interesting in table...

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Im wondering if this is an oryginal part becouse i saw photos of other arms.

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And here is sliding table

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Saw as shown up on photos was dirty and very rusted. Mechanism of fall and rise didnt work. And mechanism to set angle was working very very hard. I was hoping that cleaning up all from dust, old oil and rust will help. Now i know that hope is the mother of fools...

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So this is my biggest problem so far. Oryginal part on uk ebay is very expensive. (almost price that i payed for saw). Anyway i started restoration.
After few hours of unscrewing the screws (all unscrewed without a big problem!!!) parts of saw was ready to sanding and painting. Screw by screw i was more fascinated about this saw. Parts are very massive. All parts are matched very well to each other. Even rust and bad treatment for years didnt damaged saw inside (except that rise and fall mechanism....)

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Uh, have you seen this? For Sale - Wadkin AGS10" innards; Finally added pictures
 

Michal

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If you first remove any trace of grease then a weak solution of phosphoric acid will remove all the rust without damaging the surface. Ideally you want to immerse it, but appreciate the table is probably too big. I have had good results by soaking paper towels in the acid solution, then laying them over the surface. The has disadvantage that it will remove rust from any scratches or grooves, which purely mechanical methods wont.
Yes. I was using phosphoric acid (deruster). I puted table horizontally and spray on it acid. After 10 min i used blade knife and towels to clean it. But i think i will make it again with acid. It still can be better :p. What u think about using felt disc with paste for metal polishing as a finish?
 

Fergie 307

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If you first remove any trace of grease then a weak solution of phosphoric acid will remove all the rust without damaging the surface. Ideally you want to immerse it, but appreciate the table is probably too big. I have had good results by soaking paper towels in the acid solution, then laying them over the surface. The has disadvantage that it will remove rust from any scratches or grooves, which purely mechanical methods wont.
My spell checker has had a mare. Should read advantage.
 

Fergie 307

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Yes. I was using phosphoric acid (deruster). I puted table horizontally and spray on it acid. After 10 min i used blade knife and towels to clean it. But i think i will make it again with acid. It still can be better :p. What u think about using felt disc with paste for metal polishing as a finish?
All depends on the metal, the amount of rust and how concentrated your acid is but I would normally leave parts for a good few hours, just check every couple of hours to see how it's going. The acid will remove the rust, but if it was bad enough to pit the surface then the potting will remain, and on something like the table you have to live with it. Personally I just finish up with a scotchbrite pad and paraffin. Once you have got it as good as you can then clean it down and use a good furniture wax on the surfaces where the wood will pass over it, this can also fill small scratches and pits. This will stop it rusting and won't mark your wood. Everything else I would rub over with an oily rag as a way of preventing rust in the future. I would say that a grit blast finish is good if you are going to paint or powder coat, as it gives a good key. Any parts that are going to be left bare should be bead blasted or polished. A bare grit blasted surface will rust much more readily than a smooth surface. All my machines are covered by regular cotton bedsheets when not in use. This keeps dust off but still lets air circulate. Congratulations on the project so far, looking really good.
 

Michal

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Ok. So tomorow ill try ur method with paper towels. I will leave em for few hours. My acid is 25%.

But like u said i wanna make surface smooth and for that i wanted to use now this:
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Its polishing pad and some polishing paste.
 

Fergie 307

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That will certainly work to make them look more attractive but isn't going to do anything to any deep scratches or marks. Make sure you are using a proper polishing machine. A normal angle grinder runs much too fast and will cause it to get too hot and possibly damage the surface, as well as tearing your pad to bits.
 

MusicMan

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Michal,
It is not important at all to make the table shiny. Deep pocks or scratches are not important. Flatness is the important thing. After cleaning off the rust by whatever method (I usually just use wire wool and WD40 and avoid power sanders etc) then I use a scraper to get raised edges off at the sides of scratches, then go over it with a flat (new) sharpening stone to get any odd burrs off. Useful to check overall flatness with a good straight edge. If it is hollowed or crowned, I would try to find a local machine shop with a big surface grinder to flatten it. Again don't be paranoid, you are not making a surface plate. 0.2 mm should be fine.
 

Michal

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Thanks guys!

Ok so i will leave pad and polishing paste. Ill make one more time with acid and towels like Fergie 307 said. After all just wax to protect.
 

jcassidy

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Money saving tip - 'liquid for fireplass glass' is generally potassium hydroxide, otherwise known as 'what you get when you mix ashes with a bit of water'. That's how I clean my stupidly expensive cassette stove in the living room.

Not good for metal though so a good cleaning after is a good idea. It only becomes seriously caustic if you leave the mix to stew for a few days under the sun...
 

Michal

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Hello!
Havent been for a while here but it dosent mean that im not working! Work is progressing slowly but forward!
Ofc sometimes i make one step back. I found one more problem. Screw thread from riving knife bracket was borken. I need to make new screw and hole for it in tilt drive shaft (?). In oryginal was srcew m10 so i will need to make hole for m12. Hope there will be no consequences in future.


I have next questions for honorable group!
My left widening of the table have roller on end. Is it oryginal part? im 70% sure that not but wanted to ask. Similar roller is on sliding table.

And next question is should I and if yes is it posible to weld this hole in table. I rlly dunno what a barbarian made this hole and for what!

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Michal

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Hello!
After more then 3 weeks arrived to me gear from rise and fall mechanism! One more time big thanks for KingAether. It fits perfectly!
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So here is what ive made in last month:

a bit old inside to leave some history:
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Michal

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After long evening with my lover (we were together until midnight ;)) ive put table top to see how she looks almost fully dressed.

I wanna grind edge of wheels to make em shine.

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Michal

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But to be honest my lower is not perfect. I have a problem with mounting of rise and fall mechanism. And here is my question. What am i doing wrong here? Engine mount scrapes this part on photos and screw. Before i will use grinder to grind a bit engine mount i would like to see your opinion.

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Krysstel

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Great restoration. Well done :) Love the colour scheme.

I think one of the pictures on page 5 (where I talk about dust extraction) of my Restoration Thread shows how the rise and fall mechanism on my AGS10 went together. Maybe that can help you.

I too had the same problem with a worn out rise and fall. In my case the worm drive was also damaged and although it cost a small fortune I ended up replacing it with an original part. This improved things a lot but I still have a good amount of backlash and really need to replace the quadrant as well, but the cost of the original part is prohibitive.

Mark
 

Michal

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Thanks Mark!

I saw your thread and i also love look of ur saw! I saw photos of yours rise and fall mounting. Yours is other then mine. You got 3 screws to press down that element that rises and fall and i just one. My doesnt look for orginal part next to yours...
After folding rise and fall mechanism i realized that my rise and fall worm is used (looks similar to your old). rising and falling down working hard with new quadrant. I will need to think what to do with this because i dont wanna destroy new quadrant.
 

MilesH

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Michal, It is the original part you have on your machine. It's a squalid bit of re-engineering that Wadkin-Bursgreen did c.1975. As the locking nut on the single point bearing grub screw has itself been cut back, then the original fit must have been tight too... The attached photo is of my part from 1977, the centre of the brass grub screw is 9mm from the edge of the plate, yours looks closer.
I'd suggest the first thing to try is loosen the bolts holding the plate and back it off as far as the slack will allow and the same for the motor mount.
 
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MilesH

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As far as there is any backlash, if you mean lost motion, this should be taken care of by the rise and fall quadrant/motor assembly falling under its own weight.

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Michal

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MilesH thanks for clarification. Ill try to set motor mount and this rise and fall mount as far as i can from each other. If it will not help then ill need to grind motor mount. But if that was fine for over 40 years should be fine now also...
 

Michal

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Hello!
I was gone for a while but now back again to saw!
I moved a bit motor mount and now its fine. So one problem easy solved.

Today I found out that I got screw but dont know what it hold.
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After small investigation I found out that it hold some kind of pointer but couldnt find hole for it.

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Even when I took out paint in place where should be hole there was no mark after old pointer.
After all I had luck and i was drilling in good place. But! I had to break two drills before i took out old pointer! That took me around 2h...
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