Tier 4

[Jake]

No without lockdown and tiers the number would be the same and the big flaw is adding the words covid 19 to a death certificate is a back covering exercise, it will never be checked and cause of death is usually only a best guess in most cases.

OK so its Tom K's word versus an overwhelming consensus of the medical profession, scientists, statisticians, governmental agencies, and an actual excess death toll which will be higher than any year since Spanish Flu (during which we did not lockdown and our medical resources for treatment were incomparably more crude).

 

[jcassidy]

Now you're being absurd.

No without lockdown and tiers the number would be the same and the big flaw is adding the words covid 19 to a death certificate is a back covering exercise, it will never be checked and cause of death is usually only a best guess in most cases.

 

[Tom K]

No, it's my view and that of a huge swathe of scientists, members of the medical profession and simple observation. Where are the bodies, where are the sick people? Not on Telegraph Hill are they!

OK so its Tom K's word versus an overwhelming consensus of the medical profession, scientists, statisticians, governmental agencies, and an actual excess death toll which will be higher than any year since Spanish Flu (during which we did not lockdown and our medical resources for treatment were incomparably more crude).

 

[Tom K]

Now you're being absurd.

No just not blinkered or willing to blindly follow when the facts don't add up.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

For those of us who sport our tin foil hats with aplomb:

https://campusreform.org/?id=16463

Johns Hopkins University’s student newspaper, the News-Letter, reported on a university presentation stating that COVID-19 “had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people” and that the virus “has also not increased the total number of deaths” in comparison to historical data. However, the paper later removed the article, stating that it had been used to support “dangerous inaccuracies” on social media.

In other words, Covidiots were using facts, which is never a good thing. The presentation is in the link above - it's it's a YouTube slideshow, but I don't have time for that, so haven't watched it all. Obviously this is seriously dangerous misinformation, but you might be interested to see what information is not allowed to be published by an internal newspaper from one of the world's leading teaching hospitals.

 

[Dave Moore]

The way I see this whole lockdown / Covid tier system is....here goes...It's a massive power grab. A power grab with addition of public funds, those funds (tax payers money, yours and mine) have been shifted from public hands into private. 12 Billion GBP to Serco for example. The virus is real, it kills people, but so does every other disease on the planet. We all die. Our freedoms has been eroded right before our eyes and right under our noses.

My view (which I suspect is wholly opposite to 90% of the views on here) may sound outrageous to you but it's always healthy to consider an opposing opinion before immediately discounting it because it's the polar opposite to "mine". If allowed to carry on there will be no economy left. The talk of Universal Income is horrifying. People should be able to earn their own money, run their own businesses & all without a heavy handed State ordering people around. This is meant to a Democracy we live in!

This virus has been weaponised & policitised in order to control the masses by governments all over the world and have allowed laws to be passed (Yes LAWS) with ZERO debate and NO VOTES by our MP's in Parliment under the guise of "it's a pandemic" a "national crisis" unprecidented in peace time Britain - all I've said here are verifiable facts, please, go ahead i urge you to look up them for yourself.

The human body can fight off any disease known or unknown if the immune system isn't compromised. For example take the time to READ the life's works of the Austrian herbalist Maria Treben. Pharmacological medicine is allopathic, it treats symptoms & not the body as a holistic whole. Another example, if one looks at the life of Paracelus the Swiss Physician one would find the mixture of herbs (11 in fact) known commonly as "Swedish Bitters". Bitter foods have been lost in the UK/US Western diet. The taste bitter isn't bad for you it's GOOD for you. Besides the benefits for ones digestion and a whole load of other diseases this can stop the onslaught of the latter stages of Covid (aka - an upper respiratory infections) never mind stopping it dead in it's tracks. The latter stages of Covid are known as a "Ketone storm" where the immune system attacks itself and organ failure starts to kicks in. I really think herbal medicine has it's place in our NHS, if not people should wake up to its efficacy. I know this all sounds too good to be true but for someone who had all the hallmarks of the disease back in mid January (I'm in my late 30's, played football and rugby and done many martial arts all my life - i'm fairly fit bloke - I couldn't get halfway up the stairs! I do an active job, telecoms engineer - climbing ladders etc etc) of this year I have followed my own advice and recovered using this simple but powerful concoction of herbs.

I'm not saying the clinically vulnerable shouldn't shield, I'm not saying go around hugging each other and have 20 over at christmas, all I'm saying is that for millennia humans have healed with herbs and western medicine and science isn't the magic elixir for all our ills and ailments. Listening to the radio and news, with it's body count and infection rate over and over for the past 9 months and you will start to believe what is spoon fed to you. It will also make to so unbeliveably scared out of your mind that you are unable to leave your bedroom let alone your house! Even if you are perfectly fit and well! For your body to 'able' and your mind to 'sick' because someone 'a professor!' has told you so! Now that makes me so ANGRY......... REALLY ANGRY!

All this post is about is a plea to your thinking brain, your logical brain - I'm begging you to all THINK. I'm a key worker in telecoms, I respect all others opinions, I abide by all the 'rules'! I won't stand too close to you at Tesco's and I wash my hands, wear gloves and a mask as i'm told to do but it doesn't mean I agree with it. I find the waste and damage to the enviroment abhorrent. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, i'm not an anti anything. I'm a man, a human like you and I CARE. I CARE about my fellow man/woman & the enviroment we live in and the freedoms we all have clearly taken for granted.

What does concern me greatly is mis-information and people being brainwashed. Brainwashed and robbed. Robbed by people whom millions voted for. Politicians of whichever colour, on whichever side of the House are not out for you or I - They are out for themselves.

You cannot blindly accept what 'they' tell you without considering anothers opinion. Otherwise you haven't got a chance of defending your own.

Ps - I love wood, I love woodworking in all it's forms. I did a year long professional designer maker course on a sabbatical from my employer 18months ago and it was the best time of my life - there are time served trademen on this forum all working with such a beautiful material, I doff my cap to you all. My plan is to earn a living working with wood. May you all have a magical Christmas/Festive Period & New Year. Here's to a great 2021.

*Steps down off soapbox*

There’s an easy way of anyone riding themselves of many of today’s diseases just by studying and implementing Ketogenic diet(originally devised for epilepsy before big pharma found ways of making money) or and fasting(look at Dr Jason Fung) for getting rid of inflammation and poor health. Also look at breathing through your nose at all times(Patrick McKeown Buteyko and Oxygen Advantage). Simple and free with no drugs required.
Regards, Dave

 

[Jacob]

For those of us who sport our tin foil hats with aplomb:

https://campusreform.org/?id=16463


In other words, Covidiots were using facts, which is never a good thing. The presentation is in the link above - it's it's a YouTube slideshow, but I don't have time for that, so haven't watched it all. Obviously this is seriously dangerous misinformation, but you might be interested to see what information is not allowed to be published by an internal newspaper from one of the world's leading teaching hospitals.

Are you saying that this is true? "....COVID-19 “had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people” and that the virus “has also not increased the total number of deaths” in comparison to historical data."

 

[Rorschach]

Are you saying that this is true? "....COVID-19 “had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people” and that the virus “has also not increased the total number of deaths” in comparison to historical data."

We'll find out in a few years time. I (and a large number of trained medical professionals if you listen to news that isn't part of the MSM) are of the view that 2019/20 will not show a large increase in overall rate when compared to other years and whatever increase there is will be comparable to one of the regular "flu years".

Really what is happening is that almost invariably very old people are dying, either old people dying a few weeks/months sooner than we might have expected or dying later than they "should have" (harvesting effect). So once we have had a couple of years of low mortality (almost certain to happen) to rebalance things the numbers will pan out.
Sadly though those numbers will be skewed by excess deaths in the younger age brackets from things totally unrelated to C19 the disease but related to the C19 response. As I have mentioned before I have a family member who is going to die from cancer several years sooner than they would have due to the C19 response.

 

[Jacob]

We'll find out in a few years time. I (and a large number of trained medical professionals if you listen to news that isn't part of the MSM) are of the view that 2019/20 will not show a large increase in overall rate when compared to other years and whatever increase there is will be comparable to one of the regular "flu years".

So there's nothing going in at all at the moment?

 

[Rorschach]

So there's nothing going in at all at the moment?

I don't understand the question.

 

[Jacob]

I don't understand the question.

Just "one of the regular "flu years".?

 

[Suffolkboy]

No, it's my view and that of a huge swathe of scientists, members of the medical profession and simple observation. Where are the bodies, where are the sick people? Not on Telegraph Hill are they!

I should think the bodies were either cremated or buried.

The sick people will most likely be in hospital. Or self isolating.

Would you prefer the government dropped off the dead at your house so you can count them? Your wheelie bin is going to fill up pretty quick.

What's your supply of Kleenex like? Got a big front room and a spare sofa? The NHS could send everyone round to your house if you like then you could keep your own tally.

Maybe you have a point though... In fact... All these people that died from old age since the dawn of time. Where are their bodies? Maybe you've hit on an international conspiracy funded by hospitals and undertakers keeping us oppressed by making us believe we can get ill and die when actually we are immortal beings! Think of the profits they must be making. I bet this is linked to the illuminati and the lizard people.

Next they'll be telling us the earth is actually a globe orbited by the sun!

 

[Rorschach]

Just "one of the regular "flu years".?

Yep, they come along at least once a decade, usually twice. Here is an article about the 2017/18 winter, 50k excess winter deaths, do you remember a lock down, mask wearing, hysteria etc? Remember as well that was 50k WITH a vaccine, though as the article states that winter the vaccine was not a very good one but undoubtedly it had some effect at bringing the numbers down. Also the 50k only covers Dec-March.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/u...towards-50000-excess-winter-deaths-last-year/

 

[Jacob]

Current covid deaths UK approach 70k on a rising graph and winter not over yet. Thats in addition to any seasonal flu effects

 

[Rorschach]

Current covid deaths UK approach 70k on a rising graph and winter not over yet. That's in addition to any seasonal flu effects

Flu, this year? Doesn't exist according to the media! lol.
You are adding together 2 winter seasons remember, the first "wave" was in winter 19/20, we are now in winter 20/21.
You will note I never denied higher deaths this year, it's going to be an outlier of course, I just don't think it worthy of the response the government has had and in the long term the "cure" is most certainly worse than the disease. If you are retired and on a secure income then the "cure" doesn't affect you, try and put yourself in the shoes of someone in their 20's who is looking in a failed business and is looking at 20 years of hardship and a shorter lifespan because of this and then remember again, average age of death from C19 is 83............

All the people "saved" by this governments response won't be alive to vote for them in the next general election they are so old.

 

[Misterdog]

Why don't you drop a line to the various science institutions, epidemiologists and other experts and tell them you've seen a flaw in their arguments? If you are right you could save the world from a lot of bother!

'Science' is making trillions from this pandemic.
There is no patent available on Vit C, D and Zinc. therefore little money for science to earn from it.
The BAME community is suffering more from this disease than those without 'tinted' skin colour. This prevents them from producing Vit D naturally from sunlight as effectively as the none coloured population.
There is plenty of evidence to show that Vit D is essential to optimise the immune system.

The NHS prescribes Vit D and Folic acid (B9) to my flat bound 93 year old mother with Alzheimers.
Prescribing vitamin supplements would never have happened 20 years ago.

Dr Mercola has been advocating good food, good sleep and exercise for decades, yet he is vilified by the 'scientific' (well the big money side of it)
community, because he challenges their behaviour.

More people die in the US from prescription Opioid pain killers, than from street drugs.

Without those like Dr Mercola, the gravy train would be left to run.
Big Pharma spends billions 'lobbying' governments and medical professionals.
'Our pain killers are non addictive'

People tend to think that the scientific medical community only act to serve the good of mankind.
They also like to make a lot of money.

 

[Jacob]

'Science' is making trillions from this pandemic.
There is no patent available on Vit C, D and Zinc. therefore little money for science to earn from it.
The BAME community is suffering more from this disease than those without 'tinted' skin colour. This prevents them from producing Vit D naturally from sunlight as effectively as the none coloured population.
There is plenty of evidence to show that Vit D is essential to optimise the immune system.

The NHS prescribes Vit D and Folic acid (B9) to my flat bound 93 year old mother with Alzheimers.
Prescribing vitamin supplements would never have happened 20 years ago.

Dr Mercola has been advocating good food, good sleep and exercise for decades, yet he is vilified by the 'scientific' (well the big money side of it)
community, because he challenges their behaviour.

More people die in the US from prescription Opioid pain killers, than from street drugs.

Without those like Dr Mercola, the gravy train would be left to run.
Big Pharma spends billions 'lobbying' governments and medical professionals.
'Our pain killers are non addictive'

People tend to think that the scientific medical community only act to serve the good of mankind.
They also like to make a lot of money.

Never heard of Dr Mercola but I don't anybody would argue against "good food, good sleep and exercise" being good for you!
PS Looked him up. He's a quack and makes millions Dr. Joseph Mercola Ordered to Stop Illegal Claims | Quackwatch

 

[billw]

The NHS prescribes Vit D and Folic acid (B9) to my flat bound 93 year old mother with Alzheimers.
Prescribing vitamin supplements would never have happened 20 years ago.

My mum's been on vitamin D tablets from her GP for well over 20 years, she questions it occasionally but the verdict is they're good for you.

 

[billw]

Dr Mercola has been advocating good food, good sleep and exercise for decades, yet he is vilified by the 'scientific' (well the big money side of it)
community, because he challenges their behaviour.

I don't think you need a Doctorate to figure that diet, sleep, and exercise are quite important components of a healthy lifestyle. The guy seems to have tapped into the huge gullible and conspiracy laden society in the States and is raking it in. Can't blame him to be honest. Fools and their money....

 

[Misterdog]

PS Looked him up. He's a quack and makes millions

As I mentioned in my post.

How do you view those manufacturing and prescribing Opioid pain killers, making millions and killing thousands ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55418874
They are not 'quacks' because they shield under the 'medical science' umbrella.

Strangely these are the very people who wish to tarnish Dr Mercola, I wonder why.
The internet is littered with falsehoods, it's your choice whether you follow the path you are fed by government and mainstream capitalism or look beyond it and make up your own mind.

Of course it is easier to believe what you are spoon fed.

The Opioiod story is currently fashionable in the media, (the problem is also rife in the UK).
Though Dr Mercola was presenting the evidence years ago.

It's your choice, though if your research starts and ends on the first Google hit then your opinions are not well researched in my view.