shooting boards

[Paul Chapman]

alright alf i'll ttry again.
but recent experience says i am fine at getting it done for with the grain :?

Getting shavings with the grain is largely irrelevant IMHO, Paul. You would be able to get shavings with the grain with a blunt blade. I'm with those who suggest that the problems you are having in getting only dust from end grain are down to a blade that isn't really sharp. Hone and polish the bevel and back until they look like a mirror and then try again. And plenty of wax on the sole and side of the plane.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[engineer one]

ok so the question then is how does everyone determine what is sharp
for end grain as opposed to sharp for along the grain??

would like to know how we determine the difference.

paul :wink:

 

[MikeW]

Paul--there is no difference. Sharp is, well, sharp.

That said, I do sharpen some tools to a lesser extent. I don't take my bench chisels to the finest stone. For what I use the for it doesn't matter.

However, any edge tool that does a critical task--planes expected to produce a final or near final surface, paring and DT chisels, and, of course, shoot board planes--all receive the best edge I can muster at the moment.

But "how to tell"? Just purposeful sharpening. It's a skill that simply gets better over time. No different than so many things in life. Make things, sharpen, make some more things. All the while trying to do that which you know to do. It is a skill that builds--as long as it follows some sort of consistent effort.

I know people who have hardly made a single thing (a couple people who have not ever finished making smething) opting instead to understand everything there is about sharpening an edge tool, a noble pursuit if that is the goal. But that is not the goal, it is a rabbit hole that is sometimes difficult to extricate oneself from.

You have the knowledge. I.e., you know what the goal is for sharpening. You have the gear to accomplish sharpening. I suspect you have some sort of printed material (DC, Lee, TLN, Kirby et al) concerning sharpening. The rest is doing. Which takes making the edge tools dull.

My simple philosophy is this: Make things and sharpen the things used to make it. And keep on doing both.

That's part of my madness, anyway.

Take care, Mike

 

[engineer one]

aw shucks, mike i just love your downhome logic :lol:

actually you are right, and in fact that is what i have started to do, MAKE things again. but having made the shooting board, i wanted to be able to use it and understand it.

so when the plane did not seem to cut the way i expected i got confused.
well that's not difficult but you know what i mean?

anyway i'll try again to ensure the blade is sharp enough and wax the side and the sole and see what that does.
ta mate

paul :wink:

 

[engineer one]

well back at the tormek, and a bit more, it is getting easier, but :?

maple seems pretty easy, but the oak is more of a problem, but then i wonder whether it is actually too big so that doesn't help, it was lying around.

as you can i hope see with these rather dark midnight shots, the blade is quite mirror like, and i am getting some thou or so shavings, but even with the candle wax still not as easy as i would like.

those who say i should open the mouth more, i don't think there is any more room :? maybe i should grind some off :twisted:

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so it is getting better but still not right, i wonder whether it is only about practice, or something else i am missing???

paul :wink: [/img]

 

[JesseM]

I know you have tried a bunch of different things, so please forgive if this is redundant

When I have used a shooting board with with LN LA Jack I have noticed sometimes it likes to dig in at the beginning but doesn't have the heft to follow through on the cut and I end up with dust. The LN #8 has the heft and can follow through with ease thus I usually get shavings. Not sure of the heft of your mitre plane but I suspect that it has more to do with momentum than anything else. A few things are gonna affect this. The weight, the speed and the friction. If you have the weight and the speed you might wanna try and reduce the friction (use wax). Also you might wanna try a heavier plane just to see if it is the momentum.

But in the end if you getting a square, smooth face then I think the lack of shavings are irrelevant. It just indicates that you not digging in deep enough to produce said shaving. More like scraping instead of planing.

 

[bugbear]

On the back breakout (and support thereof) front, I would recommend knifing the line you're working to (either with a knife, or cutting gauge). You need a line to work to, and if it's a true "cut" it helps the break out (same as when sawing shoulders).

Alternatively, it's worth chamfering the back edge (with a single chisel cut).

Addendum; since you're just startin' to mess with a shooting board, start with the easiest woods - probably a cheap mahogany like sapele. Very hard woods are difficult to cut at all, and very soft woods are difficult to cut cleanly (this is the same advice as for dovetails)

BugBear

 

[newt]

Paul, you have probably tried this but I cannot be fagged to go back through the posts, but have you tried on a piece say just 10mm thick?

 

[mr]

Incidentally
Chris Schwarz is on the case
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,7f0fe013-8433-4255-991f-61e50e256d6d.aspx

theres a beaten to the punch again thing
Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Incidentally
Chris Schwarz is on the case
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,7f0fe013-8433-4255-991f-61e50e256d6d.aspx

theres a beaten to the punch again thing
Cheers Mike

Yeah, but he gets the shearing cut thing mucked up too. Like I said earlier, it can be a bit to wrap your head around it. Overall, good article, though I firmly believe everyone should make their own.

 

[mr]

Yeah, but he gets the shearing cut thing mucked up too. Like I said earlier, it can be a bit to wrap your head around it. Overall, good article, though I firmly believe everyone should make their own.

So I saw re the shearing thing, I was a bit surprised that someone was actually selling them.
EDIT
If you have a look the comments to that article Chris maintains that the ramp skews the cut if only minutely.

Cheers Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

$95 - thats one expensive hand-tool Jig! Mines made out of MDF and a bit of mahogany for the fence - it's been fine for over a year without any need for adjustments. I use either a block or a no.7 - I do find though that I really have to concentrate on getting as sharp an edge as possible (with the blades) otherwise I tend to just 'crash' into the cut with hardwoods.

 

[engineer one]

well days down the learning path, we seem to slowly be getting there.

still not happy, but after a couple of days of experimenting, and returning to a shallow angle. re made it at 20 degrees, then made a second bevel so i now have a an angle of 22.5 degrees, which with the bed give me about 42.5 degrees, not far off that on philly's new woodie.

i experimented with adding a secondary bevel by using a (shock) oilstone just a small second bevel, it seemed to work better, still no big shavings but some slightly bigger ones.

so i moved again, back to the tormek, and reshaped a second bevel of 22.5 degrees, polished properly front and back. moved the adjustment bar, and wacked it back in. found a piece of 4x1 oak and it worked pretty well, shavings not too big, but more shaving like. also with the maple, more shavings like.

on softwood still dust, but the end finish is still smooth and pretty neat.

so i still have a problem with the first cut, and actually entering the wood, for the first time, thereafter it becomes somewhat easier, but only 1 thou shavings., so they really look like dust. somewhat like byron is talking about i guess :?

so the other thing is how wide should the mouth be, i cannot open it more than 1 mm because that is as far as the adjustable part will move.

thanks again 8)

paul :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

Paul, for what it's worth, when edge shooting pine and such like, all I get is a very dusty thin chipping/shaving. I get good results with sapele, and small chippings off harder stuff like beech and rosewood. I've not worried about trying to get a full-length shaving, as with no time at all even with dusty shavings I get a nice square edge.

 

[engineer one]

i actually agree byron, but like all things you want to do your best, and when every body else says oh well, i get these results, then when you don't you wonder what you are doing wrong.

i am as i said, happy with the finish now it is square, and smooth, but would be nice to know whether i am still not doing it right. :?

paul :wink:

 

[Philly]

Paul
I think you are taking too fine a shaving - 1 thou is a very, very fine shaving. On end grain I prefer to take a chunkier shaving - it holds together better.
Oh, and don't forget. The shaving is the part you through in the bin - the important thing is the square edge you produce... :wink:
Philly

 

[DaveL]

Oh, and don't forget. The shaving is the part you through in the bin -

So this big collection of shavings is worthless? :shock: :roll: :wink:

 

[engineer one]

the problem is i can't produce a thicker shaving, so for the moment until i get a chance to practice elsewhere, i will live with it

so who wants a pile of sawdust :?

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Is it shavings you want to make - or a piece of woodwork?
If the latter I'd say stop worrying about the shavings, just ignore them :lol:

cheers
Jacob

 

[engineer one]

well i am still trying to improve my technique, so i reverted to using my no6 on its side. even though the blade has been well used since my last sharpening of it, it still cut quite well.

however, it is less comfortable for me than the No9, so i checked the throat opening, and wonder whether a tight throat is the problem???

the throat on the No6 is about 2mm, whilst that on the No 9 is closer to 1mm so is there a feeling that the throat should be wider or narrower??

and even with the No6, when trying to get a larger shaving, the start is more like smashing into a wall than slicing through a piece of wood. now i guess part could be because it is awkward for me to push, but realistically could the throat gap have anything to do with it??

also how important is it that the end stop should be fixed hard, or is a push fit just bashed in a little more with the mallet enough??


course if i have to increase the mouth gap on the No9, means machining off a lump of metal of the adjustable bit :?
paul