Not so smart meter

[guineafowl21]

The adverts can be misleading, too much mention of the energy savings by having one which is only possible by you reducing the loads.

Those pound-shop Einstein ones are very grating.

Usage monitoring can be done with a simple clamp and display. Cheap and easy. Meter readings by email are no hardship at all.

Installing a smart meter will give power companies (and any hackers or glitches) remote control of your supply. Since your dumb meter is always ‘on’, logically the only control that can be exerted would be downwards from there, ie ‘off‘.

They could also, at the click or slip of a mouse, start charging for apparent power.

In short, I can only see upsides for the power companies (and enemy states/disgruntled teenagers) and none for the consumer.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My meter was as old as the bungalow - 40+ years - and was though to be inaccurate. About five years ago the supplier (Scottish Power at the time) agreed to change it. The chap duly arrived and said he'd come to fit my smart meter. I told him I didn't want one, and he looked through the paperwork. Oh, he said -you're on economy 7 - you can't have a smart meter anyway, they don't work with economy 7.

I'd have though a prime reason for their introduction would be to facilitate variable charging.

 

[Spectric]

I'd have though a prime reason for their introduction would be to facilitate variable charging.

So not that smart afterall.

 

[Doug71]

My mother is on economy 7 and has a smart meter, on several occasions people have come out to read the meter but only ever managed to record one reading from it (which was the total of the day and night combined), they have all said that is the only reading they can take from it. A quick Google and I found out how to access the sub menus on the meter and find the readings for the two different rates. It amazes me that someone whose job is to read meters can't manage this.

 

[John Brown]

I believe I am correct in saying that the government have mandated the energy suppliers to fit as many ‘smart meters’ as possible, hence they badger people to get them fitted. If you need a meter to tell you to turn a light off you are ‘lost’ but at least if you sit all day watching it you won’t be watching rubbish on Tv or on your mobile devices getting a stooped back.
Regards,
Dave

Lights, these days, are not generally the culprits, in my experience.

 

[Doug71]

I agreed to having a smart meter fitted a couple of years ago but it didn't happen, here's why.

There was a knock at my front door, when I opened it there was a shall we say very large gentleman who was smoking, he took a last drag on his cigarette, threw it down on my garden path and told me he had come to fit my smart meter. I invited him in and showed him the cupboard where the meter was, he commented that it was in a f***ing stupid place. I had to put up with the site of his builders bum stuck out of the cupboard and constant swearing (along with the smell of stale sweat and smoke) for about half an hour before he announced the meter wouldn't fit, there wasn't enough height at the top of the fuse board. He went outside to have a think about it (another smoke) and came back in saying he was going to move the main fuse etc then the meter would fit. I questioned if he was allowed to work on the main fuse, he said no but you had to do these things sometimes I politely told him I didn't want him doing anything that he shouldn't be doing, he went outside to phone his boss, had another smoke then left. Horrible man.

 

[Spectric]

in saying he was going to move the main fuse etc then the meter would fit.

Sounds like not only unqualified but accepts dangerous practice. Did he not realise that if he proceeded to move the main fuse that he would be live working.

 

[sploo]

When it comes to communications are we really surprised, it is a case of standards not really being standards as it always seems no one can agree. You get the base protocol which should be a standard and fixed but instead all the suppliers want their flavour of the standard and it happens all the time in so many fields of engineering.

The wonderful thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from

I understand (but don't actually have any of the detail to back that up) that SMETS1 wasn't really intended to be rolled out widely, but... "stuff happens" I guess.

 

[sploo]

Installing a smart meter will give power companies (and any hackers or glitches) remote control of your supply. Since your dumb meter is always ‘on’, logically the only control that can be exerted would be downwards from there, ie ‘off‘.

Yes, but also... not really.

Simply getting an In Home Display to register with a smart meter requires quite a few layers of security; including the meter being given exact codes that relate to the device being paired. After that point, the display can read data from the meter (note the emphasis on read; not write).

Displays can send information back - e.g. for the purposes of applying pre-pay top-up codes; but that requires yet another layer of security on top of that required to just pair the display with the meter.

In terms of the comms between the meter and "the world"; it sends data, and mostly only accepts tariff information, and new firmware images.

So - whilst the system could be hacked, so could your home Wi-Fi, your smart TV, your phone etc. etc.

 

[Owd Jockey]

I've been 'badgered' for years by my energy supplier to have one fitted. However, with a 5Kw PV array on the roof and the 'old type' electricity meter, owners with a similar set up would understand my reluctance to change

 

[Stevekane]

Apologies as Ive said this on another smart meter thread, but anyone contemplating a Smart Meter should be aware that as part of the install the fitter will finally test the Gas and Electric for safety, if youve got an old gas fire, cooker or boiler etc you may discover your appliance fails and is disconnected. The Smart Meter installers association is full of these evangelical tales of how many lives they may have saved by their actions, whilst the internet has stories of a smart meter install turning into a very expensive new boiler! Apart from not really being able to see the benefit to us (until variable pricing came along) it was the thing that frightned me off the idea of having one.
Steve.

 

[Sideways]

I've been 'badgered' for years by my energy supplier to have one fitted. However, with a 5Kw PV array on the roof and the 'old type' electricity meter, owners with a similar set up would understand my reluctance to change

As a solar newbie, most export tarriffs I can access are barely worth the effort of signing up. However with a smart meter and battery I can now get on a tarriff that pays nearer 20p / kWh.
Even if I only export a little, that has the potential to offset my annual standing charges and top up the battery overnight in winter when the solar isn't enough.
That's a pretty compelling argument to me.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Octopus?

 

[sploo]

Apologies as Ive said this on another smart meter thread, but anyone contemplating a Smart Meter should be aware that as part of the install the fitter will finally test the Gas and Electric for safety, if youve got an old gas fire, cooker or boiler etc you may discover your appliance fails and is disconnected. The Smart Meter installers association is full of these evangelical tales of how many lives they may have saved by their actions, whilst the internet has stories of a smart meter install turning into a very expensive new boiler! Apart from not really being able to see the benefit to us (until variable pricing came along) it was the thing that frightned me off the idea of having one.
Steve.

Of course... it would be better to have an expensive new boiler than your home turning into a very expensive boiler...

But, granted, a boiler labelled as "dangerous" by an installer may well still run fine for years. Everything in life is a risk I guess.

 

[Spectric]

But, granted, a boiler labelled as "dangerous" by an installer may well still run fine for years. Everything in life is a risk I guess.

You should always get at least a second opinion because to some a boiler should be replaced just on the basis of it not being as efficient as a new one and in some cases because they want the work. Also always have a CO alarm in the vicinity of any gas appliance as a level of safety.

 

[woodwind]

We woke up one January morning to a cold house, the boiler was not working. After attempting to relight it a few times, I called a boiler engineer and sat back and waited for him to arrive.
Getting on for lunchtime I tried to boil the spuds on our gas hob, only to discover we had no gas! Problem solved maybe? On inspection the smartmeter was dead, no sign of life so I assumed the battery was faulty and called the energy supplier.
The were pretty good and sent an emergency engineer who informed us that the battery couldn't be changed and that the whole meter would have to be swopped. Unfortunately he did not carry a smart meter as they were installed by another company so he left us with a normal meter which we have to read as usual. So we now have one of each!

 

[flying haggis]

I agreed to having a smart meter fitted a couple of years ago but it didn't happen, here's why.

There was a knock at my front door, when I opened it there was a shall we say very large gentleman who was smoking, he took a last drag on his cigarette, threw it down on my garden path and told me he had come to fit my smart meter. I invited him in and showed him the cupboard where the meter was, he commented that it was in a f***ing stupid place. I had to put up with the site of his builders bum stuck out of the cupboard and constant swearing (along with the smell of stale sweat and smoke) for about half an hour before he announced the meter wouldn't fit, there wasn't enough height at the top of the fuse board. He went outside to have a think about it (another smoke) and came back in saying he was going to move the main fuse etc then the meter would fit. I questioned if he was allowed to work on the main fuse, he said no but you had to do these things sometimes I politely told him I didn't want him doing anything that he shouldn't be doing, he went outside to phone his boss, had another smoke then left. Horrible man.

when the fag went on the garden path would have been the point he was told to "go away" in my view

 

[Sideways]

Octopus?

Yes. Their "Flux" tarriff.
Cheap rate is 2-5am
Peak rate 4-7pm
Standard for all the rest of the day.

Export payments vary in the same time bands so they pay you the most at the same time of day they would charge you most.

Here's the interesting bit. Doing simple math on the lifetime throughput of my home battery vs it's cost. I reckon that storage adds at least 8p/kWh to my energy cost whether I charge the battery from the grid or charge the battery "free" from the solar.
Charging up from the grid during the overnight cheap rate will cost me 21+8p = 29p / unit. I can store more than our daily needs during those 3 hours so should never need to pay the higher prices.
If I were able to export from my battery at Octopus's peak hours of 4-7pm, they'd pay me nearly 38p/unit, in addition to getting a decent export rate of nearly 24p for any "free" solar surplus during the day to 4pm.
Even after allowing for wear and tear on the battery, there's enough potential upside from this tarriff (a few pounds a day through the summer half year) to shorten my payback period on the renewables quite a lot.

 

[John Brown]

I've been 'badgered' for years by my energy supplier to have one fitted. However, with a 5Kw PV array on the roof and the 'old type' electricity meter, owners with a similar set up would understand my reluctance to change

Having a smart meter fitted has had absolutely no effect on anything relevant to our PV installation. What is that would happen in your case?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The meter runs backwards on feed in so your FIT effectively is the rate you're paying.