Not so smart meter

[Agent_zed]

Had a call from my energy supplier who are still trying to get me to have a smart meter installed.

I already have a digital meter which works without a problem so I have no inclination to change it.

I asked if the meter could be installed in 'dumb' mode to which he replied yes. To which I then questioned what was the point of changing a perfectly good working meter for another one which would then work in exactly the same way. He replied 'that's what you just asked for'.

He continued to push and I said I didn't want something that gave my energy supplier the ability to remotely shut my energy off. He said they couldn't do that. I said yes they can they have a remotely operated solenoid in them, that's how they can change you to pre-pay.

He said they wouldn't do it without your consent.

I said what about the plan for rolling blackouts in the previous winter, they weren't going to ask for consent. The only way that could work is by using smartmeters to shut it down otherwise it would shut down vulnerable peoples houses too.

He didn't know what I was talking about (I think he was in south africa from the accent so probably didn't know).

might eventually get one installed but only in dumb mode, but that seems a waste to me as i have a working meter.

I don't like that they aren't being truthful about the ability for smartmeters to shut off your supply remotely.

(For the record I intended to comply with the blackout if it was needed manually.)

 

[hunter27]

Talking about a waste of time we got a letter stating that United utilities were going down our road fitting everyone water meters in the foot path. If you didn't want a meter they would just fit it but not use it to calculate your bill? Anyway when they arrived outside our house I explained that our stop tap on the pavement also supplies next doors as well as ours so they said they would just replace the tap but guess what the idiots did they still fitted a meter on the sly but any readings from it will be completely useless!!!

 

[loftyhermes]

They're going to have to change them again when 2G and 3G phone signal gets turned off.

 

[Phill05]

This is what I have been saying for years.



Smart meters: Homes installed with millions of faulty devices in botched net zero rollout

Almost one in ten smart energy meters installed in UK homes are not working properly

Three million faulty smart meters have been installed in households across Britain in a botched roll-out, it has been revealed.

Almost one in ten smart energy meters installed in UK homes are not working properly and more than one in three homeowners have reported issues, according to the National Audit Office (NAO).

The roll out was supposed to see a smart meter installed in every home by 2020 and is now expected to cost more than £13.5billion.

Smart meters are designed to replace traditional gas and electric meters and send automatic readings to energy suppliers.

The display screen also gives homeowners real-time information about how much they are spending on power.

The Government is already falling behind on its latest 2025 target of putting smart meters in 80 per cent of homes.

Experts say that the rollout of smart meters is key to helping reduce energy consumption and meet the government's 2050 net zero target.

According to a report by the Department of Energy Security and Net Zero, only 57 per cent of households have had a meter installed by March this year.

Suppliers told the NAO that it was now more difficult to encourage customers to take up a smart meter and that they had already plucked all the “low hanging fruit” of households who are willing to install them.

The report says more than 1,000 smart meter installers have quit their jobs or retired since March 2020, while energy suppliers have been deterred from training new installers because strong competition meant they were quickly snapped up by rivals.

It is believed that out of the three million smart meters which have problems, many are “dumb” first-generation models that ceased functioning after consumers switched to different suppliers.

Dame Meg Hillier, the chairman of the cross-party public accounts committee, said smart meter take-up was a “far cry” from the initial plan to put the devices in every British home by 2020.

She said: “Today’s NAO report shows the Government has made progress addressing technological issues in smart meters since 2018.

"However, 10 years on from the requirement for suppliers to install smart meters in all homes and small businesses, just 57pc of meters are smart, a far cry from the original target.”

Around 37 per cent of customers surveyed by Smart Energy GB, the company tasked with the roll-out, reported having issues with their smart meter, including no automatic readings, inaccurate bills, and the display not showing any information.

Despite the Government hailing smart readers as cost-savers, many people remain reluctant to switch over from conventional meters.

NAO head Gareth Davies said: “The rollout is now at a crucial point – and the department should ensure it has robust information on both the total costs and benefits of smart meters to make decisions from an informed position to maximise value for money.”

 

[Jacob]

Which magazine says similar things. Smart meters advice guides - Which?
Also points out that if they need replacing after the first year you may have to pay for a new one even if it's not your fault. Looks like a very good reason to say no!
Octopus have been chasing us to have them but it looks like a bad idea until they are proved more reliable

 

[niemeyjt]

Spark (now Octopus) were pushing us - as the famous slogan goes - "Just say no".

 

[sploo]

There's an awful lot of misinformation and fear surrounding smart meters; almost all of it unwarranted.

Suppliers don't need you to have a smart meter in order to remotely shut off your supply. This has long been possible with an old "dumb" meter.

A valid concern is the ability to remotely switch a customer onto pre-pay; this was controversial and hopefully is a practice that's being stopped. Suppliers could still install a pre-pay meter even if you didn't have a smart meter, by obtaining a warrant to enter your home and physically install the pre-pay meter.

For the 2G/3G network issues: Long-Range Radio is used in northern England and Scotland. The rest of England and Wales does use the 2G/3G network. 4G communications hubs should roll out soon; though it does indeed mean that existing 2G/3G units will need replacing when that network is closed down (around 2033 I believe).

The issue with first generation (SMETS1) smart meters "becoming dumb" when you change supplier is being fixed by a process called "enrol and adoption"; which allows your SMETS1 meter to talk to the same central system that's used by SMETS2 meters. Point being; it's not a case that all the SMETS1 meters will need to be removed and replaced.

I believe that recent delays in the roll out have partly been caused by suppliers being unable to get installers; mainly because that skill set maps well to doing EV charger installs, and - put simply - it pays better.

 

[Sideways]

I've had a 2nd gen smart meter for a week now.
I've been telling them to go to hell for years but I want to move to an Octopus time of day based smart tarriff (which is only possible if you have a smart meter) so I let OVO install one for me just before my fixed deal with them comes to an end.
The installer is employed by ovo in a branded van and has been fitting meters for a few years, he's now replacing gen 1 meters he fitted 4 years ago as well as continuing to install new ones.

What was frustrating is that the gas meter rides on the back of the electricity meter when it comes to the remote communication. A low power Home Area Network radio links the two, as well as the "in home display" and this HAN has quite limited range. My meters are on diagonally opposite corners of the house and the HAN is too weak so after trying, the installer had to refit my old gas meter.
I now have another appointment in a months time when some subcontractor will come and plug in a booster device to strengthen the HAN signal and after that the meter installer can come back for a 2nd go at the gas meter.
The smart meter installer was actually polite, punctual and competent. If ovo would give him a box full of boosters, he'd have done the job properly first time around. Instead some management muppet has decided to subcontract the unskilled task of plugging in and possibly pairing up a booster instead of allowing the meter installer or even me to do it myself. They have probably tripled the cost of the job for the large number of homes that do require a HAN booster to work reliably.

And smart meters were intended to save the nation a fortune by optimising the use of the energy grids and allowing them to be upgraded less urgently.
The management of the programme has been utterly shameful !

 

[cowtown_eric]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...emoval-of-thousands-of-smart-meters-1.2928314

 

[ian33a]

I was against having a smart meter for years as I couldn't see the point, especially if it was a SMETS1.

About three months ago, partly on the back of some friends having one as well as PV/Battery, I started to see some advantages in having more usage data - especially with the cost of energy.

Octopus came and installed one for our electric (we have no gas, only oil) and it has been a revelation. It has allowed me to see our usage in half hourly intervals and plot how our PV has subsidised our electrcity usage. This does require some skill in Excel, but it's been a useful exercise to keep the brain going. It quickly became obvious how little PV was actually being used by the house and how much was being exported to the grid, albeit recovered by generation payments on the FIT. I really had little or no granularity on that before.

The smart meter convinced me that adding batteries to our PV would complement our energy usage and, being on a bore hole, would eleviate the anxiety of being unable to access fresh water in an extended power cut. Yes, the payback is fairly lengthy, but it does mean that we will have a stored supply of power for many months of the year. Having a decent app and a parallel web page allows us to really utilise our energy even more effectively than we did before the smart meter and batteries.

The flip side of all of this is that I have shelled out a fair bit of money buying the batteries and inverter - partly on the strength of having a smart meter. As to being remotely cut off or stuck on pre pay - yes, it's a risk, but for us, a very small one.

For most users, a little smart display gives enough data to encourage better energy usage. If nothing else, seeing unexpectedly high instantaneous usage may prompt a user to check that they have turned the oven or the immersion heater off.

 

[HamsterJam]

Suppliers don't need you to have a smart meter in order to remotely shut off your supply. This has long been possible with an old "dumb" meter.

I’d be very interested know how that is implemented at an individual customer level - I don’t believe pre-smart meters have any remote communication functions built in but I’m willing to be educated.

A valid concern is the ability to remotely switch a customer onto pre-pay; this was controversial and hopefully is a practice that's being stopped. Suppliers could still install a pre-pay meter even if you didn't have a smart meter, by obtaining a warrant to enter your home and physically install the pre-pay meter.

This is precisely the point…
Electricity suppliers were remotely switching customers to pre-pay without notice and without following the legal process.
Needing a warrant to fit a pre-pay meter forces them to follow the legal process.

 

[Spectric]

I am still not convinced by so called smart meters, the only people who are going to benefit are the suppliers and not the customer. The adverts can be misleading, too much mention of the energy savings by having one which is only possible by you reducing the loads.

Once you give up a known tarrif from the supplier to anything variable then you may save one day and lose another, hand over the tarrifs to the supplier and you are nolonger in control.

’d be very interested know how that is implemented at an individual customer level - I don’t believe pre-smart meters have any remote communication functions built in but I’m willing to be educated.

They just removed the company fuse but it is not done remotely. Old meters are simple devices with no comms to communicate with anything.

It has allowed me to see our usage in half hourly intervals and plot how our PV has subsidised our electrcity usage.

But would you not be better with a system that actually logs the data using instruments to measure RMS voltage and current and your PV output which could all then be imported into Excel in a CSV format. Now you can easily use the data to provide graphs of usage in Kwh versus time.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The adverts can be misleading, too much mention of the energy savings by having one which is only possible by you reducing the loads.

I reported the ads to the ASA a couple of years ago - they replied that they had had so many complaints they weren't going to respond individually.

 

[HamsterJam]

They just removed the company fuse but it is not done remotely.

So they’d need a warrant to that as well and therefore have to follow the legal process.

Unfortunately suppliers appear to have been abusing the remote disconnect function built into smart meters by remotely switching defaulting users to pre-pay without following any legal process.

 

[Spectric]

suppliers appear to have been abusing the remote disconnect function built into smart meters by remotely switching defaulting users to pre-pay without following any legal process.

What stops them from overcharging you at certain times, with a known fixed price it is clear but with a variable tariff who knows .

 

[eribaMotters]

I had a Smart meter installed at my previous house by my choice as part of a major re-furb. In my current new build it was the default fitting.
Smart meters are fine. They send the data required to your provider and if/when flexible tariffs are available then you can be charged accordingly for the lower rates at different times of the day.
The problem I see, and this is based on experience, is that they do not talk the same language as your nice display box in the lounge. When we moved in Sept 2022 this issue had still not been resolved, and in our new build we do not have one of these displays.
To be honest I question the usefulness of one of these [if it worked] as you use what you need to, turning off appliances when not required.

Colin

 

[sploo]

I’d be very interested know how that is implemented at an individual customer level - I don’t believe pre-smart meters have any remote communication functions built in but I’m willing to be educated.


This is precisely the point…
Electricity suppliers were remotely switching customers to pre-pay without notice and without following the legal process.
Needing a warrant to fit a pre-pay meter forces them to follow the legal process.

Basically "what Spectric said". Point being, yes, in some areas a smart meter gives your supplier the ability to do things you'd not like them to do more easily; but it's not as if none of this happened before smart meters existed. Thankfully the pre-pay behaviour of suppliers does appear to have been nipped in the bud.

The problem I see, and this is based on experience, is that they do not talk the same language as your nice display box in the lounge. When we moved in Sept 2022 this issue had still not been resolved, and in our new build we do not have one of these displays.
To be honest I question the usefulness of one of these [if it worked] as you use what you need to, turning off appliances when not required.

Colin

There's a couple of "layers" with this; the first generation (SMETS1) meters did indeed have some variation within the specification, and that unfortunately meant that your In Home Display needed to be designed to work with your particular meter vendor. The SMETS2 spec is better; in that a SMETS2 smart meter will generally work with any SMETS2 In Home Display.

The second issue is that the SMETS1 meters all sent information to the suppliers using different mechanisms; so if you changed supplier, and your new supplier didn't support that meter vendor's communication system, then your supplier couldn't talk to the meter, or send tariff data (which is required to make your In Home Display work correctly). The SMETS2 meters all talk to the Data Communications Company (DCC), so changing supplier doesn't affect the meter comms.

Currently, SMETS1 meters are being "enrolled and adopted"; such that they're being moved over to talk to the DCC, so it's allowing a lot of those meters to be "smart" again without being replaced.

 

[Spectric]

When it comes to communications are we really surprised, it is a case of standards not really being standards as it always seems no one can agree. You get the base protocol which should be a standard and fixed but instead all the suppliers want their flavour of the standard and it happens all the time in so many fields of engineering.

 

[Dave Moore]

I believe I am correct in saying that the government have mandated the energy suppliers to fit as many ‘smart meters’ as possible, hence they badger people to get them fitted. If you need a meter to tell you to turn a light off you are ‘lost’ but at least if you sit all day watching it you won’t be watching rubbish on Tv or on your mobile devices getting a stooped back.
Regards,
Dave

 

[TPK]

I've had a 2nd gen smart meter for a week now.
I've been telling them to go to hell for years but I want to move to an Octopus time of day based smart tarriff (which is only possible if you have a smart meter) so I let OVO install one for me just before my fixed deal with them comes to an end.
The installer is employed by ovo in a branded van and has been fitting meters for a few years, he's now replacing gen 1 meters he fitted 4 years ago as well as continuing to install new ones.

What was frustrating is that the gas meter rides on the back of the electricity meter when it comes to the remote communication. A low power Home Area Network radio links the two, as well as the "in home display" and this HAN has quite limited range. My meters are on diagonally opposite corners of the house and the HAN is too weak so after trying, the installer had to refit my old gas meter.
I now have another appointment in a months time when some subcontractor will come and plug in a booster device to strengthen the HAN signal and after that the meter installer can come back for a 2nd go at the gas meter.
The smart meter installer was actually polite, punctual and competent. If ovo would give him a box full of boosters, he'd have done the job properly first time around. Instead some management muppet has decided to subcontract the unskilled task of plugging in and possibly pairing up a booster instead of allowing the meter installer or even me to do it myself. They have probably tripled the cost of the job for the large number of homes that do require a HAN booster to work reliably.

And smart meters were intended to save the nation a fortune by optimising the use of the energy grids and allowing them to be upgraded less urgently.
The management of the programme has been utterly shameful !

My supplier tried to get me to have a smart gas meter on the basis that the old one was "probably" giving inaccurate readings. They intimated that it would be stand alone and I would not need smart electric meter. Needless to say I didn't believe them, so am still using my old gas and electric meters that I read every month and send reading on line.
Like you my meters are on on either side of the house. What I couldn't find out was where power came from to work gas meter. If it's an internal battery how long does that last? I had a smoke alarm which had a "7 year" battery but after 4 years the battery died and I found it was a sealed unit so had to have a whole new smoke alarm.