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How square is your square

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SMALMALEKI

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Hi there

I know it is one of the most basic questions and it has been debated several time on the forum before.

I bought few combinations squares and engineers square.
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.

My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.

:oops: :oops:
 

sunnybob

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None that the eye can see.

a couple thousandths of an inch is neither here nor there. 1/32" is not acceptable.

Its very easy to check a square, if youre going to a shop to buy one you can test it before you buy.
All you need is a piece of wood, mdf, whatever, that has a known straight edge, and a fine tipped pencil.
Put the square to the straight edge and and draw a pencil line along it.
Flip the square over and line it up with the pencil line and draw again. the two lines should be as one. Any divergence at all and you put the square back on the shelf.
 

Bodgers

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SMALMALEKI":1n9uwguf said:
Hi there

I know it is one of the most basic questions and it has been debated several time on the forum before.

I bought few combinations squares and engineers square.
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.

My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.

:oops: :oops:
How are you measuring squareness?

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk
 

Benchwayze

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Hi Saeid,

From what I saw the other day, the measurement was made against a straight edge, and proved to be almost 1mm out of square. (Doubled of course by comparison.)

Saeid,

Have you received my private message in answer to yours?

John (hammer) (hammer)
 

Rorschach

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No square is truly square, at least not for long, as soon as you pick it up it starts to warp from the heat in your hand.
For any work, wood or metal I want them to be as square as I can possibly get them. For me that is within the thickness of a mechanical pencil mark over their length since I don't have a practical way to measure any more accurately than that.
 

ED65

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SMALMALEKI":76ycsayn said:
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.
They could easily if they wanted to, they just can't be ar*sed!

SMALMALEKI":76ycsayn said:
My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.
It depends on the size of the square. Smaller ones, a bit out is a lot out. On larger ones the same amount out (as in the size of the error at the end of the blade) means a smaller angle so could be acceptable. Although of course ideally none would be out at all, or in practical terms by anything more than the thickness of a pencil line.
 

Fitzroy

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Combination squares can normally be adjusted, search YouTube videos for “combination square adjustment”

Fitz.
 

Bm101

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I have a kinex engineering square. You don't need one though unless you can cut wood to robot like tolerances. No. Me neither.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/kinex-di ... 100mm.html
I use it for lots of stuff. It's nice. I have a moore and wright combination square, a modern stanley one and an old starett one (lucky find on ebay). The stanley is ok, poorest build quality but tbh as a set square (jammy screw) its more than accurate enough. As mentioned, the screw jams and I wouldn't buy another but it is fit for basic purpose. The M/W is a woodworking standard and was about £20. The starret is just lovely to use. Luxury kit.
All of them are square enough for my level of woodworking. More than enough for most I'd guess.
TBH, if I might hazard a guess, woodworking won't ever be 'solved' by engineering accuracy measuring tools. Took me a while to learn that. Still just beginning to learn.
Having said that....
There's a couple of bits on sale now, if you want guaranteed accuracy at a price.
incra-precision-squares-t116685.html
Cheers
Chris
 

Yojevol

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A few years ago I bought a small engineers square Ax....... I checked it over with a larger square which I was happy with. It appeared OK on testing the outside and inside rightangles, but when I tried the straight edge test (ie, draw a line at L's to the edge and then flip the square over and draw another line to see if they are parallel) something was obviously not quite right. Close inspection revealed that this was the problem:-
square.JPG
I complained to Ax.... and they sent me another one. It was exactly the same. Back to Ax.... ' I think you have a manufacturing problem'. No answer. I now ave 2 small squares which I have to be wary of when in use.
Brian
 

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Honest John

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Short while ago I thought I’d lost my Starrett 6 inch square and decided to look at 5he new Axi Precision 6 inch hobbies. At Axi there were 4 on the shelf. I’d gone tooled up to check, and I found 3 of them ridiculously and unacceptably inaccurate, a d 1 that was ok. All of them had sharp and rough castings and they were screaming at me to put them down. Superficially they looked like the Starrett ones but the build quality was rubbish. I thought that I would buy another Starrett.! When I took these 4 Axi ones back to the display shelf I noticed an eye wateringly expensive American jobie and that checked out to be as perfect as I could detect. Next to that was a Bahco cheap as chips aluminium alloy stocked square. I checked 4 of these and every one was perfect on both sides of the blade and also when the blade was removed and reversed in the stock. I bought one of those. A couple of months after this experience my “lost” Starrett turned up. (hammer)
 

chaoticbob

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SMALMALEKI":5wim9t3h said:
Hi there

I know it is one of the most basic questions and it has been debated several time on the forum before.

I bought few combinations squares and engineers square.
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.

My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.

:oops: :oops:
Hi Saeid. I wonder where you got your 'engineer's square'? I bought one from Screwfix which was complete junk, despite being advertised as an engineer's square. If you go for something conforming to BS 939 class B it'll be more than good enough for woodworking. Faithfull (not the best name I know!) do them at modest price - I haven't yet had a dud from them.

Combination squares are hit and miss for squareness in my experience unless you want to get into the Mitutoyo/Starret/MW price bracket.
Robin
 

Benchwayze

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I have a plain Moore & Wright 6 inch engineers' square which I had given me by a retired cabinet maker in the 1960s. It has needed a light filing from time to time. I love it when doing small jobs and it is reliable still with a comforting heavy handle. Not for sale! :lol:

Regards John
 

SMALMALEKI

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sunnybob":2qnpddih said:
None that the eye can see.

a couple thousandths of an inch is neither here nor there. 1/32" is not acceptable.

Its very easy to check a square, if youre going to a shop to buy one you can test it before you buy.
All you need is a piece of wood, mdf, whatever, that has a known straight edge, and a fine tipped pencil.
Put the square to the straight edge and and draw a pencil line along it.
Flip the square over and line it up with the pencil line and draw again. the two lines should be as one. Any divergence at all and you put the square back on the shelf.


Unfortunately there is no shop near me and I have to drive to Axminster ( three hours round trip). Most of my shopping is online, so it is not possible to check.

Regards
 

SMALMALEKI

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Bodgers":1cd7pnpm said:
SMALMALEKI":1cd7pnpm said:
Hi there

I know it is one of the most basic questions and it has been debated several time on the forum before.

I bought few combinations squares and engineers square.
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.

My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.

:oops: :oops:
How are you measuring squareness?

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk
I use a straight edge sheet of wood
 

SMALMALEKI

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Benchwayze":w0b9b3zt said:
Hi Saeid,

From what I saw the other day, the measurement was made against a straight edge, and proved to be almost 1mm out of square. (Doubled of course by comparison.)

Saeid,

Have you received my private message in answer to yours?

John (hammer) (hammer)

Hi John

I sent you a PM
 

Bodgers

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SMALMALEKI":2mvjeoss said:
Bodgers":2mvjeoss said:
SMALMALEKI":2mvjeoss said:
Hi there

I know it is one of the most basic questions and it has been debated several time on the forum before.

I bought few combinations squares and engineers square.
I found them all to be out of square. I know it is not practical for the manufacturers to produce all of them dead square.

My question is how much inaccuracies would you accept for woodworking.

:oops: :oops:
How are you measuring squareness?

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk
I use a straight edge sheet of wood
How straight is the piece of wood and what are you using to measure how straight it is?

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk
 

Bodgers

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Honest John":3w4uidy5 said:
Short while ago I thought I’d lost my Starrett 6 inch square and decided to look at 5he new Axi Precision 6 inch hobbies. At Axi there were 4 on the shelf. I’d gone tooled up to check, and I found 3 of them ridiculously and unacceptably inaccurate, a d 1 that was ok. All of them had sharp and rough castings and they were screaming at me to put them down. Superficially they looked like the Starrett ones but the build quality was rubbish. I thought that I would buy another Starrett.! When I took these 4 Axi ones back to the display shelf I noticed an eye wateringly expensive American jobie and that checked out to be as perfect as I could detect. Next to that was a Bahco cheap as chips aluminium alloy stocked square. I checked 4 of these and every one was perfect on both sides of the blade and also when the blade was removed and reversed in the stock. I bought one of those. A couple of months after this experience my “lost” Starrett turned up. (hammer)
Your description of the Axminster square doesn't make sense: "new Axi Precision 6 inch hobbies"

There are two main grades of Axi engineer's style squares. The new 'Precision' series and the more budget "Workshop" series. Both are sold in metric quoted sizes.

I have the large 225mm Precision square. It comes in a fancy presentation box and the finish and matching are superb. Dead nuts square.



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loftyhermes

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SMALMALEKI":35a7d7e3 said:
Unfortunately there is no shop near me and I have to drive to Axminster ( three hours round trip). Most of my shopping is online, so it is not possible to check.

Regards
Your profile says Derby, two shops that I know in derby are Jaymac on London Road and Protrade on Ascot Drive, there must be B&Q, Homebase, Wickes and the like as well.
 

shed9

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Incra and Bridge City have decent precision squares made specifically for marking wood. Also consider something resettable like the Trend M3. Failing that a Starrett or Moore and Wright is the way to go.

The short answer is if you want precision, put more money down IMO. I'd also add that this is woodworking, we are not sending men to mars.
 
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