How do I do this? Help!

[deema]

I’m stuck! I’ve made a new door for a new opening under the stairs. However it won’t swing due to geometry that I hadn’t accounted for, and I’m struggling to think of a solution. Any help hints or ideas would be most welcome.

So here is what I’m trying to do, swing the door on the long edge. If I swung it on the short edge I wouldn’t have a problem, but that would look awful!!

The problem is, that the head of the door will foul the rebate when swinging it on the long edge. The photo below shows the point of the door and the overlap with the rebate that causes the interference.

So, what’s the solution? What am I missing?

I could chamfer the head of the door to match the angle which would then allow it to swing, but that would take a huge amount off the inside and it wouldn’t land on the rebate. I could square off the top rather than having a point but I’d still have to chamfer the top edge of the door.

The door has been ‘rebuilt’ out of two doors to match the rest of the internal doors. It’s veneered chipboard construction (yuck) and I’ve cut a strip off a door and laminated it over the head of the door to hide the chipboard edge.

The top rail and latch side style have been removed, the door cut to fit and then reattached matching everything as best I can up. This is
round two making the door, the first attempt was subject to an earlier post showing my stupidity

 

[John Brown]

I think a lot of people have come up against this problem, I know I have. I'm not sure if there is a solution, short of a total redesign, overlaid door or slide out unit, for example.
However, I'm sure someone will have an answer..

 

[worn thumbs]

In simple terms you have two options;remove the portion of door that is between the apex and the point where the door fouls the frame and live with a visible facet when the door is open.Alternatively,square the top of the door to the point where the door fouls the rebate-plus a little clearance-and drop a triangular infill in the frame.

 

[Inspector]

You might try swing clear hinges. It brings the door further out and when open it sits just past the door frame allowing more clearance through the opening. At most you might only have to bevel the door a little bit.

https://www.amazon.ca/National-Hard...55&mcid=1807afdfbe0639f2a90db8f494b1accb&th=1
Pete

 

[pulleyt]

I think chamfering the head of the door (the angled rail) is the only solution. But it won't need to be a consistent chamfer. You will need to chamfer very little, if anything at the end furthest from the hinges. You may even not need to chamfer at all at that point dependent on the amount of space you intend to leave between the door and the frame. You will still have plenty of door to close against the rebate at that part of the door. I hope that makes sense. It could be drawn but I would be inclined to start at the top of the rail and shape the chamfer as necessary to get the door to close. This is only feasible if you're happy to chamfer the door while in situ. As you work away from the hinges the chamfering will become less and less.

The outside edge of the door will remain unchanged so will look correct when the door is closed.

I hope this makes sense. I can see what I'm saying in my head but that doesn't always translate when I put it into words

 

[deema]

@John Brown thanks John, it’s actually ressuring knowing I’m not the only one.
@worn thumbs thanks, I have the ‘boss’ to get it passed
@Inspector good idea, but the ’Boss’ rejected the idea of protruding hinges.
@pulleyt Thanks, I fully understand what your saying. A quick bit of algebra and I know that the doors are 36mm thick and I want a 2mm gap around the door I can swing it with the edge square 323mm from the hinge.

 

[Bingy man]

I had this issue with a simple plywood panel that a made when creating a storage area for a customer . They didn’t want anything as nice as @deema so I had to remove the offending corner of the panel or door can’t remember which tbh . It didn’t look too bad but it might on yours as it’s wider but it was my option at the time - I don’t recall it jumping it at me and customer was happy ..

Edit Looking at my pics it looks like I pared away part of the panel to ease the corner allowing it to open - stunning door so good luck ..

 

[Ollie78]

I think chamfering the head at the top corner will be enough. You could plane a bit more off the full length of the top as well to add abit more clearance.
i did think of Soss hinges but I think they offer no advantage here.

 

[AndyMc]

I think chamfering the head of the door (the angled rail) is the only solution. But it won't need to be a consistent chamfer. You will need to chamfer very little, if anything at the end furthest from the hinges. You may even not need to chamfer at all at that point dependent on the amount of space you intend to leave between the door and the frame. You will still have plenty of door to close against the rebate at that part of the door. I hope that makes sense. It could be drawn but I would be inclined to start at the top of the rail and shape the chamfer as necessary to get the door to close. This is only feasible if you're happy to chamfer the door while in situ. As you work away from the hinges the chamfering will become less and less.

The outside edge of the door will remain unchanged so will look correct when the door is closed.

I hope this makes sense. I can see what I'm saying in my head but that doesn't always translate when I put it into words

This was part of our house when we moved in (I didn't make it!) but think it captures what you're describing. The chamfer curves at the apex but is only applied to the top third and levels out toward the bottom.

 

[scholar]

I’m stuck! I’ve made a new door for a new opening under the stairs. However it won’t swing due to geometry that I hadn’t accounted for, and I’m struggling to think of a solution. Any help hints or ideas would be most welcome.

So here is what I’m trying to do, swing the door on the long edge. If I swung it on the short edge I wouldn’t have a problem, but that would look awful!!
View attachment 171342

The problem is, that the head of the door will foul the rebate when swinging it on the long edge. The photo below shows the point of the door and the overlap with the rebate that causes the interference.
View attachment 171344
So, what’s the solution? What am I missing?

I could chamfer the head of the door to match the angle which would then allow it to swing, but that would take a huge amount off the inside and it wouldn’t land on the rebate. I could square off the top rather than having a point but I’d still have to chamfer the top edge of the door.

The door has been ‘rebuilt’ out of two doors to match the rest of the internal doors. It’s veneered chipboard construction (yuck) and I’ve cut a strip off a door and laminated it over the head of the door to hide the chipboard edge.

The top rail and latch side style have been removed, the door cut to fit and then reattached matching everything as best I can up. This is
round two making the door, the first attempt was subject to an earlier post showing my stupidity

@deema I have done this - if you can wait til Wednesday (cos I’m not there at the moment), I can send you some pics which might help you to gauge the chamfer required. Otherwise it is just a trial and error exercise.

Cheers

 

[Jacob]

First check that it will fit the opening before being attached. Then hang it.
Mark with a pencil where the wood gets in the way of closing, and trim it off to the mark. You'd have to unhang it.
A bevel.
The stile will meet the rebate, it doesn't matter if the head doesn't it'd all be out of sight

 

[Henniep]

I’m stuck! I’ve made a new door for a new opening under the stairs. However it won’t swing due to geometry that I hadn’t accounted for, and I’m struggling to think of a solution. Any help hints or ideas would be most welcome.

So here is what I’m trying to do, swing the door on the long edge. If I swung it on the short edge I wouldn’t have a problem, but that would look awful!!
View attachment 171342

The problem is, that the head of the door will foul the rebate when swinging it on the long edge. The photo below shows the point of the door and the overlap with the rebate that causes the interference.
View attachment 171344
So, what’s the solution? What am I missing?

I could chamfer the head of the door to match the angle which would then allow it to swing, but that would take a huge amount off the inside and it wouldn’t land on the rebate. I could square off the top rather than having a point but I’d still have to chamfer the top edge of the door.

The door has been ‘rebuilt’ out of two doors to match the rest of the internal doors. It’s veneered chipboard construction (yuck) and I’ve cut a strip off a door and laminated it over the head of the door to hide the chipboard edge.

The top rail and latch side style have been removed, the door cut to fit and then reattached matching everything as best I can up. This is
round two making the door, the first attempt was subject to an earlier post showing my stupidity

Fit parliment hinge, it will immediately swing the door further away from the RH upright.

 

[pe2dave]

Does this happen if hinged to the smaller side?

 

[deema]

Does this happen if hinged to the smaller side?

No, it will swing if hinged on that side. But, it makes using the door awkward and aesthetically not pleasing. So the Boss rejected that idea

 

[deema]

Fit parliment hinge, it will immediately swing the door further away from the RH upright.

Thanks for the suggestion. A bit of sketching and I don’t think they will help unfortunately.
The door if it’s not modified would need to enter the rebate parallel to the rebate, like drawer would.

 

[John Brown]

I think parliament hinges would actually exacerbate the problem!

 

[worn thumbs]

This prompted me to do a little exercise to extend my capabilities in Freecad.I created a typical door section and then guesstimated the top angle,following which I took a point where I guessed the hinge pivot axis would be and created a cone that followed the angle of the door.I used the cone to trim the solid and am hopefully attaching a screenshot.Theoretically,such a model could be used to CNC machine the shape,but obviously it would be overkill for a single domestic door,with a few hundred it would be worthwhile after a conversation with the person who made such an exercise necessary.....

 

[TomGW]

The simple solution is to cut the top triangle off the door and fix it in place, re-veneer the edges and job done. This way the graining will match and the gap, between the door and triangle can be tight.
The question is how big does the triangle need to be. My guess would be roughly 120mm on the hinge edge. This could be checked by using a scrap piece of chipboard as a sacrificial/experimental door and progressively removing the height at the critical point - cut the experimental door low on the hinge edge and trim the critical point down until it no longer fouls. This will give you the height you need to cut your triangle.
Your experimental door doesn't need to be full width, 300mm will be plenty and only needs to be long enough to span both hinges and get close to the top.

 

[deema]

@TomGW thsnks, good idea. I have the first door I made a mess of to experiment with before committing the ‘finished’ door.

 

[deema]

This prompted me to do a little exercise to extend my capabilities in Freecad.I created a typical door section and then guesstimated the top angle,following which I took a point where I guessed the hinge pivot axis would be and created a cone that followed the angle of the door.I used the cone to trim the solid and am hopefully attaching a screenshot.Theoretically,such a model could be used to CNC machine the shape,but obviously it would be overkill for a single domestic door,with a few hundred it would be worthwhile after a conversation with the person who made such an exercise necessary.....

That’s very interesting, and a great visual, thank you.