extracting mdf dust

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Jake having seen the price I am very happy as my 3HP extractor from Ebay was £150 and the seller delivered it to me. The 2 filters were £125 delivered and about £10 for the bits so I have a few quid to build the cyclone
I am not gloating
Barry
 
Don't mind whether you are or not - I couldn't spare the space for a set-up like yours, and a couple of hundred quid to have an instant solution is worth it to me.
 
suppose jake got a good point there as space maybe a bit of an issue might have to move things around a little especially if i also want to buy a bandsaw might have to try and sqeeze an extractor on the side of my shed garden shape is a little awkward

how noisy r the camvacs there has been a lot of coments on how noisy they r
phoned data powertools in cardiff they said they got a camvac set up with their ductwork aswell going down monday to take a look.

shaun
 
So obviously a "fine" filter material - hey, wheres's the sarcism icon gone?

Scrit
 
Taking about noisy - about a year ago I found a offcut of 250mm PVC pipe in a Paris DIY and bought it to make a baffle to reduce the noise from the impellor. Started with chicken wire for the inside of the tube followed by a layer of fiberglass then a layer of roof insulation with acoustic foam stuck to the PVC outer layer. It should take up to 10dB away.
Just completed it so I will have to test it soon. Let you know the results - they won't be scientific as I have no test kit.
Barry
 
right then i am going down data powertools to check out camvac tomorrow, i am definately going to build a cyclone as my main dustextraction,
also trying to decide between the camvac and trend t30af, i know the camvac is more expensive but you cant put a price on your health

any one got a preference

shaun
 
No point in getting the camvac just for powertool use - if you are going to have a machine for each task, then the powertool vac wants to be more easily portable and to have a power take-off.
 
Dear All

Thanks for the positive feedback re our input to the forum, time as always against us so I will not be a frequent contributor but will be only too happy to reply to any specific e mails sent to us, this is not me being evasive just not enough hours in the day.

Right trying to cover most of the bases from the post following mine:-

Ivan, yep once the main filter is occluded then you start to have problems in that airflow is reduced - recommendation - use an interceptor tank to drop out the volume and reduce this problem ideally with a cyclonic lid to take more of the fine dust out at the first stage.

As I said in my first post all 2.5" machines now have cyclonic entry with NVT feature as standard this dramatically extends the time before the main filter needs cleaning, don't forget that this is what the machine is designed to do, stop that stuff being pumped back into the air.

Pawnking belive me a cyclone is not easy to design, one that works well anyway, for the best part of 2 years we have played around with a prototype add on for Camvac users and it is at this time with a rather well know wood turner based in Norwich. All of the dimensions are inextricably linked to each other change 1 and change them all if you see what I mean, anybody can put a rough 80% collector together but to do the right thing of 90 - 95% is not easy without some serious CFD software like Mr Dyson. I will never knock competitors machines imported or otherwise, the Trend machine has it's place as do most. The Camvac machines are available dependent on model in 1, 2 and 3 motor configurations, each motor unit is an industrial application unit made in Europe and provides 54 litres per sec or 111 cfm with a vacuum level (water lift) of 2080mm. With what you are looking at you I would recommend a 2 motor the critical unit is as always the planner and you do not say what width it is?? maybe you could e mail me this and any other questions you have separately. As for being a Newbie with amateur questions forget it, my guess is there are others out there that would ask the same questions but their ego won't let them ! ! !

Ivan - re your second post, our combination of airflow and water lift provide us with the answer to most hobby, light trade and mid size workshop applications, a separate division of our company goes up to 25hp 3 phase units with high pressure low volume (same as the Camvac concept) the real key is airflow, just because a machine has a 4" port doesn't mean it is the right size in fact most machines including my own bandsaw I have blocked off all of the manufacturer ports and created my own as theirs were the wrong size and in the wrong place.

As for pricing well that's not easy, whilst we might want everything for the lowest ever price we as manufacturers have our overheads, so even as you are working in your workshop we have people back here working on the next models, working on improvements, working on cost reductions without sacrificing quality and working on keeping the units made in the UK. Over the last year we have seen steel rocket and copper and plastic just go ballistic average across the board 30 - 40% (the far east are just sucking the raw materials in so fast the prices go crazy) we have worked hard by better buying and slicker manufacturing to keep cost down.

Barry - your 3hp extractor, is I guess a twin sock unit with 1 stage filter with filtration from 5 to 10 microns and as soon as you get filter blockage or you try to reduce the inlet dia you will loose up to 80% suction, we have brought the machines in and done the tests, they are dust pumps, wear a mask! ! !

Noise - all Camvacs have exhaust ports, thes can be used for blowing or a pipe of similar dia can be attatched without restriction and the warm air and noise can be ducted outside the workshop, it is a very effective route to take dB levels @ 2 meters with the outlet at eye level are :-

1 motor 68
2 motor 75.1
3 motor 75.6

Hope this helps, any specific questions just drop me an e mail at [email protected]

regards

Paul
 
"Barry - your 3hp extractor, is I guess a twin sock unit with 1 stage filter with filtration from 5 to 10 microns and as soon as you get filter blockage or you try to reduce the inlet dia you will loose up to 80% suction, we have brought the machines in and done the tests, they are dust pumps, wear a mask! ! !"

Camvac Man you are wrong my filters are not the standard supplier by the extractor makers my are each 21m2 with filtration down to .5 micron. I also have two 65 litre dust buckets prior to the dust arriving at the extractor .
I have also built 2 mini cyclones to run on household 2000W vacuums. I work on the principle that as little dust/chips as possible need to get to the impellor- the higher the seperation the better the system
Barry
 
went to c the camvac in operation
286 and the 386
single and twin motors seem pritty good to me high filtration down too 0.5microns
a few replies said they where noisy, IMHO they werent all that bad i would say my house vacuum is louder, even with 2motors running.
camvacs where connected to their ducting system which looked easy to assemble and apparently doesnt need earthing for static even though it is plastic

there seemed to be very good suction with 1 motor running and amazing the difference with two motors and this was at the end of the duct run with all about 4 or 5 blast gates closed.
although suction did decrease a fair bit when my hand was moved away slightly form nozzle so i dont know how this will affect picking up fine dust that gets slightly sprayed from the tool, i suppose thats where the high volume low pressure cyclones work best.

mmmmmmm decisions decisions

:? :? :?
shaun
 
Dear Barry

I would love to see a picture of exactly what you have, any chance you could e mail me one or two???

Dear Shaun

One feature Camvacs have is that if you have a multi motored Camvac and only turn 1 on a percentage of air is drawn back via the stationary motor so that in the event of an unnoticed blockage the motor still gets cooling air, for full performance run all motors.

Additionally all HPLV units (Camvac, Trend etc.) regardless loose flow the farther away you move from the suction port that is why 99.9% of our queries come from people who want to extract dust from equipment with 3 feet of free air in between the place where the dust is created and the dust port. Where HPLV really gains is that they are not so prone to filter occlusion, in other words as the filter becomes blocked the vacuum level doesn't drop significantly, as significantly as the HVLP systems (twin sock type machines) and that we can run soiled air through 3 stages of filter down to 0.5 microns HVLP's can't do that! ! !

Additionally and most importantly an HPLV system can have its inlet reduced many fold i.e. 4" down to 1" we even have car body shops reduce from 2.5" to 15mm to fit the dust ports on their equipment, but we do not loose suction, try that with a HVLP and it will die, suction is almost completely lost. So if you want to go from you extractor to your router, hand sander, DA, biscuit jointer, the small pieces of kit that produce dust in high volume i.e. 4" down to 20mm HVLP will not do what you need it to do.

Barry don't forget the photographs, really looking forward to seeing what you are doing.

Regards

Paul
 
just to let you know i have ordered a 2 motor camvac just over £200 gives twice the suction of the trend and filtration seems better aslo can be added to a mini cyclone or seperator bin whatever u wanna call it
will do what i need for the moment

still in progress of sourcing materials as i am definately going to build a cyclone as my main source of dust extraction unit

cheers

shaun
 
I opened the top of one of the filters today and was surprised how little dust there was in the filter. I am using two dust buckets prior to the extractor
DB1Construct.JPG

DB2Construct.JPG

Dust buckets depend on the HP of your motor - with 3HP a 44gal drum would be better than the 65 L drums I have used. The 65L works well with a 2HP motor but you lose too much when using a 1HP motor.
What I am trying to do is prevent as much dust as possile reaching the filters.
ExtractorwithFilters.JPG

What I am about to try is to use two 65lL drums one on top of the other and I am going to fit a conical flower pot from Ikea that costs £22. I will try various setting as the calc's suggest the body to be 430mm and the cone 575mm given the diameter of the 65L drum.
 
Shaun I get them from a local recycle place - wash them out with bleach to counter the material that was in them. They cost me between £5 & £8 each depending on the number of lids I wanted
Barry
 
This thread has been very informative, despite the differences of opinion. My extraction system at this point isn't much, although I have plans for something much better when I have the space. Plans are to build a cyclone and to use the motor and impellor from an industrial 3hp that I bought a couple years ago for buttons. No space for it yet. Hopefully this year I will. Right now, I only have a cheap 1 hp extractor and an Earlex shop vac. Use the Earlex for sanding and other handheld power tools. Use the extractor for everything else. I have upgraded to a 2 micron filter bag--not perfect, but a huge improvement on the 30 micron it came with. I think I'll buy one of the cartridge filters Barry has to improve it further, and then it can be later used on my cyclone.

On that note--increasing filter area improves even a lowly 1hp dramatically. I've often contemplated the idea, but thought it would be a waste of money on such a cheap extractor.

Having been reminded of this by this discussion, I thought last night I would test the theory by putting my 3hp top bag on my 1hp extractor. The difference is huge!! The results are unscientific, but here they are:

My tablesaw has overhead and below the table extraction (modified by myself.) Above the table is 2.5 inches and below is 4 inches. Either point is OK on it's own, but I couldn't use both at the same time, unless I hooked up the vac above the blade--very loud and cumbersome solution. So what I have usually done is use the top for MDF and the bottom for real wood. Now, I can use both simultaneously. I have to close the blast gate for the bottom port by about halfway to even out the pressure (due to top port only being 2.5 inches. But both ports show significantly better extraction.

The other test I did was to use the 2.5 inch hose at the far end of the system (about 5 metres of 4 inch pipe and 2 metres of 2.5 inch hose and 3 bends between the extractor and end.) I used the hose to vacuum up a pile of planer shavings--a hopeless prospect previously. It would normally take minutes to shift the pile and several more minutes to clear the pipes. Now the pile is shifted in about 30 seconds, and the pipes are cleared in around 10 seconds. So I am more than convinced of the need for larger filter area.

Brad
 
i have managed to get hold of 2 x 2.5kw/3.3hp aerofoil fans at least i think they r aerofoil the fan blades look a bit like a water wheel :lol: , for the total price of £0 could it be adapted to a cyclone
the aerofoil fan blades seem fairly robust, they came from an industrial extraction unit and they r 240v

i am thinking as long as i use a seperator b4 the cyclone that big bits that could damage the fan will be seperated any suggestions to good an oportunity to miss

cheers

shaun
 
Hi Shaun

Aerofoils have to work in a clean airstream - ideally they need to draw air through the filter or at the very least have an efficient cyclone in front of them because even fine dust can adhere to them and knock-out the balance. You'll need to take that into account if you use them. You also need to check them for cleanliness several times a year, but they have the advantage of being so much more efficient than paddle types.
Good basis for an exrtractor.

Scrit
 
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