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Jonm

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Unfortunately as soon as a human is in one spot for more than 10 minutes they'll start complaining about immigrants when someone new turns up ;)

It reminds me of an amusing exchange I saw on Twitter a few years ago; a guy was claiming he'd traced his ancestry "all the way back" to prove he was pure blood English, with no foreigners anywhere in his history. Someone pointed out the following:
  • Take the average age of each generation at reproduction to be 30 (likely much younger going back in time, but let's stick with 30)
  • "All the way back"; let's go to 1066; as we can probably agree things get a bit muddy past then. Call that ~900 years ago
  • 900 years, with a reproduction age of 30 is 30 generations (900/30)
  • If you want to check the history of your immediate previous generation, that's 2 people (mum and dad)
  • Two generations is 6 people (mum and dad [2], plus their parents [2+2])
  • Three generations takes you to 14 people (mum and dad [2], their parents [2+2], their parents parents [2+2+2+2])
  • By 30 generations, you'll have needed to check the background of 2,147,483,646 people
  • If you could fully confirm the "Englishness" of each of those people in just 1 second, it would take 68 years to complete
Mr "all the way back" didn't respond 😁
Off topic of an off topic of an off topic.

Back in the early 60’s I went to live in Australia with my parents. My father went ahead by plane, myself and mother followed by boat. We were heading for Sydney but the ship was on a global tour so went via Hong Kong and the Philippines and stopped at Brisbane on the way. On going ashore the first Australians we met realised Immediately that we were English and said “so you are here to take our jobs”. My mother’s reply was “No, my husband is in the Royal Navy, he is here to defend you”. They had no reply. We were there for over 2 years and the general atmosphere was one of unfriendliness to the English, and I had to go to school with them.
 

Jonm

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It's very confusing, according to this: "What people – even, seemingly, the government – did not realise is that, since 2006, the Free Movement Directive (to give it its formal title, EU Directive 2004/38/EC) has given us exactly the control over immigration that voters demanded"
Yes exactly, Referendums for Maastricht and Lisbon. Impose the seven year restriction for A8 countries, apply the rules for immigrants from EU, explain to the public why we voted for EU legislation rather than say “ we have to do it because it Is an EU requirement.“

Our governments do none of the above then give us a referendum and now we are where we are.
 

thomashenry

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Why on earth did you think that ?
Because the headlines proclaimed the deal as securing tariff free trade. That's "why on earth". My post was a rhetorical one, intended to illustrate the difference between reality and what was promised or implied.

I didn't sign up to Brexit anymore than you did. I'm about as anti-Brexit as it gets, always have been, and will remain so until either we rejoin, or I die.
 
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Limey Lurker

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It must be becoming obvious to everyone that the the people who want to run this country are the very people who should NEVER be allowed to!
 

sploo

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I said “uncontrolled immigration” clearly that refers to immigration that we cannot control which means immigration from other EU countries when we were a member.

You have not mentioned us not imposing the seven year ban on immigrants from the A8 countries which virtually every other country in the EU did. We also did not enforce the requirements to have a job in the same way that Germany does with its registration requirements. Both factors stoking the “we are being swamped” rhetoric and an example of bad Government.

As someone who wishes we were still in the EU I was stating some of the things which, in my opinion were downsides to membership. I said I was “uneasy about the high levels of uncontrolled immigration” and like a viper you strike. Ease up, read the comments in their entirety, try to see the other point of view. Don’t assume that the other person is an uninformed i-diot who needs to be questioned and educated.
But that's exactly my point - there was not ever "uncontrolled immigration". There were always rules on what an EU citizen was allowed to do in terms of migrating to live in another EU member state. If our own governments chose to ignore some of those rules, that's not the fault of the EU as a group or a process; it's entirely on us.
 

Jonm

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But that's exactly my point - there was not ever "uncontrolled immigration". There were always rules on what an EU citizen was allowed to do in terms of migrating to live in another EU member state. If our own governments chose to ignore some of those rules, that's not the fault of the EU as a group or a process; it's entirely on us.
We almost agree on this. The vast majority of eu immigrants are hard working, pleasant and a great benefit to uk. I have yet to meet one that did not fall in to this category. The numbers however were uncontrolled, and certainly from the A8 countries were far greater than we were told to expect and no plans were in place for public services and housing to deal with the numbers. At the time of the referendum I was uneasy about the numbers coming in. Combined with the streams of people being ushered through hungary and on to the welcoming arms of Germany it was manna from heaven for the Brexiteers.
 

Jacob

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..... At the time of the referendum I was uneasy about the numbers coming in......
Was this down to any personal experience or just media reports?
Speaking for myself I've never had the slightest problem with any immigrant I've encountered, directly or indirectly. In fact quite the opposite they all seemed to be doing useful and essential jobs.
I've always believed the whole "problem" was a fiction.
 

Misterdog

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as proven by Trump: if you lie big you can win big.
Or if you keep quiet as the EU did when they built a 'wall' (financial) in Turkey and Libya to keep out the migrants. Then everyone will be busy focussing their venom on Trump for shouting about his wall.
 

Peterm1000

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Was this down to any personal experience or just media reports?
Speaking for myself I've never had the slightest problem with any immigrant I've encountered, directly or indirectly. In fact quite the opposite they all seemed to be doing useful and essential jobs.
I've always believed the whole "problem" was a fiction.
I believe all the BBC newsreaders are wearing black ties to celebrate the wonderful job one particular immigrant did for this country. Unsurprisingly with a name like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Boris Johnson is also descended from immigrants. He was also an immigrant himself for some time as I believe he was born in the US and lived there. Winston Churchill's grandfather was American. Margaret Thatcher had an Irish grandmother and so on, and so on and so on....

It's hard to think that the complaints about immigration aren't really about wanting to keep Britain's cultural integrity.
 

Misterdog

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Since the Brexit transition period ended on 31 December 2020, trade between Britain and the EU has plummeted, with exports from the UK down 41 per cent and imports down 29 per cent in January according to the Office for National Statistics.
Though you might wish to look at the figures for February.

UK trade - Office for National Statistics

Unless you are a remainer, in which case it is probably better to go back to telling us that there will be no food and no vaccine medicine if we leave.
 

MarkDennehy

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Unfortunately as soon as a human is in one spot for more than 10 minutes they'll start complaining about immigrants when someone new turns up ;)

*remembers Irish food in the 1970s and 1980s*

*looks at Irish food today*


Can I get some more uncontrolled immigration from all over the world please? It's very tasty.
 

Amateur

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As James Dyson pointed out this morning,
"We can employ people from all over the world
previously we were only allowed to employ people from Europe and we couldn't get the engineers we needed.
we now have 60 different nationalities now on our Wiltshire site.

he also said
" Freedom from the EU allowed Oxford scientists to develop a world beating covid 19 vaccine"
Had we been part of the EU we would not have had freedom of mind under their control.
 
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Jacob

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As James Dyson pointed out this morning,
"We can employ people from all over the world
previously we were only allowed to employ people from Europe and we couldn't get the engineers we needed.
we now have 60 different nationalities now on our Wiltshire site.

he also said
" Freedom from the EU allowed Oxford scientists to develop a world beating covid 19 vaccine"
Had we been part of the EU we would not have had freedom of mind under their control.
You might have missed that he's moved his business to Singapore. Pays less tax, lower wages.
Nonsense about employing only allowed for people from Europe previously - in fact downright dishonest.
Asta Zenica are multinational and work with Oxford was going on well before Covid, or brexit for that matter. Not a sudden post brexit opportunity.
 

Amateur

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You might have missed that he's moved his business to Singapore. Pays less tax, lower wages.
Nonsense about employing only allowed for people from Europe previously - in fact downright dishonest.
Asta Zenica are multinational and work with Oxford was going on well before Covid, or brexit for that matter. Not a sudden post brexit opportunity.
But you dont need much upstairs to realise restraints on employment by EU member states ( wink wink) reduces the technology and development pool by the dire way the EU is run, trying to stop one country having a competitive edge over another.

What doesnt make any sense is the inability of the EU to be able/want to change or at least start addressing its rules and changing the original draconian mantra any successful company country does on a scheduled time scale .
 

Amateur

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You might have missed that he's moved his business to Singapore. Pays less tax, lower wages
Please don't insult everyone's intelligence here.
Thousands of other businesses have done the same.....
I bet that's why there's so much poverty, unemployment, social deprecation in the UK you tell us about..right?
 
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