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RobinBHM

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All this was inspired by the principle – which is quite true within itself – that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. ........

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[8]
Godwins law :)
 

sploo

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The last couple of pages make me despair for humanity; the dragging up of anti-EU tropes that have been disproved so long ago, and so many times, that there must be nothing left of the body - it having been beaten so hard. Add to that bizarre conclusions from minor bits of evidence, and then finally a reference to Hitler 🤦‍♂️
 

Doug B

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by the way how is the current UK govt doing with its bogus PPE contracts? -I presume since brexiters are so worried about fraud they must be all over it
I think when it comes to fraud the British government is playing at it compared to the EU, just remind me how transparent they are with their expenses
 

alanpo68

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I think when it comes to fraud the British government is playing at it compared to the EU, just remind me how transparent they are with their expenses
Amazing how Boris was so desperate to get out of the EU before they introduce the money laundering legislation regarding offshore tax havens. It must have just been a co-incidence that Vote Leave was bankrolled by the likes of Aaron Banks.
 

Doug B

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Amazing how Boris was so desperate to get out of the EU before they introduce the money laundering legislation regarding offshore tax havens. It must have just been a co-incidence that Vote Leave was bankrolled by the likes of Aaron Banks.
I have no doubt Alan what I object to is the EU being held up as some shinning beacon when by its shear size it has to be one of the largest democratically elected corrupt institutions there is.
Its estimated each MEP gets the thick end of 1/2 a million euros a year, times that by 705 MEP’s, but of course we will never know the true figure because they passed privacy laws preventing us seeing their expenses, handy eh.
 

RobinBHM

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The last couple of pages make me despair for humanity; the dragging up of anti-EU tropes that have been disproved so long ago, and so many times, that there must be nothing left of the body - it having been beaten so hard. Add to that bizarre conclusions from minor bits of evidence, and then finally a reference to Hitler 🤦‍♂️
I actually entirely agree with Bob and others who say "its time to move forward".
But until politicians and the media start to tell the truth, I think it will be very very difficult.

We all know the Brexit debate has 2 completely entrenched sides, I'm sure this forum is a reflection of every debate going on.


I would really like to see remainers and leavers forget these old arguments and move on to discussions about how this country moves forward. The problem though is the problems that have to be resolved are the same ones debated for the last 4 plus years.

It is a simple fact the EU is the UKs largest trade partner.
It is also a simple fact that trade with the EU is now more difficult.

So how do we resolve that?
 

RobinBHM

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I think when it comes to fraud the British government is playing at it compared to the EU, just remind me how transparent they are with their expenses
Tufton street network

Good law project

Randox laboratories

Russian influence

Uber

Richard Desmond

Tate and Lyle


I could go on and on....

It's ironic really, Brexit is an enabler for this stuff.
 

RobinBHM

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Err... if we are talking Trump, isn't it if you lie bigly you can win bigly?
"We've told some tremendous lies, this Trump administration has told bigger lies than any president in history"

"Sorry, did I say lies, I meant to say alternative facts"

"Sorry I must go, my bestie mate Vlad is on the other line"
 

Doug B

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Tufton street network

Good law project

Randox laboratories

Russian influence

Uber

Richard Desmond

Tate and Lyle


I could go on and on....

It's ironic really, Brexit is an enabler for this stuff.
You really don’t need to post this for me Robin, two of my very good friends are staunch remainers & post this sort of stuff up regularly on social media but just as this is going on in our own government the same is happening in the EU, it’s why I have very little time or respect for politics of any flavour, the corruption is endemic.
What we need is more transparency & accountability though it will never happen as there are too many noses in the trough with vested interests to let that happen.Just look at Neil & Glenys Kinnock with estimated EU earnings of £10,000,000 over a 15 year period not bad little earner eh
 

Jonm

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[
Good question Phil and plenty of answers! Big issues too, not just trivia.
So - do we have any answers to the other question about advantages of Brexit? Seems to have gone quiet on that front.:unsure:
Nul points so far, surely somebody can think of something?
Well here is an advantage of brexit
Criminals in the UK and the EU will find it easier to pursue their illegitimate business. A win win situation for UK and EU.
 

Jonm

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I actually entirely agree with Bob and others who say "its time to move forward".
But until politicians and the media start to tell the truth, I think it will be very very difficult.

We all know the Brexit debate has 2 completely entrenched sides, I'm sure this forum is a reflection of every debate going on.


I would really like to see remainers and leavers forget these old arguments and move on to discussions about how this country moves forward. The problem though is the problems that have to be resolved are the same ones debated for the last 4 plus years.

It is a simple fact the EU is the UKs largest trade partner.
It is also a simple fact that trade with the EU is now more difficult.

So how do we resolve that?
[
We are not going to rejoin the EU any time soon, probably for at least 10 years. In that time the EU will evolve, possibly in to something we would not want to join. The EU could split up and/or the UK could fall apart. The Euro could fail, who knows.

We have the imminent threat of coronavirus and a massive national debt. Very few Brexiteers or remainers have changed their mind and the split is about 50/50. In time it will become clearer what the real effect of Brexit has been.

As you say, It is a simple fact the EU is the UKs largest trade partner.
It is also a simple fact that trade with the EU is now more difficult. However that is now a fact of life and we cannot change it for a number of years. We just have to get on and do the best we can and pull together.

as far as I can tell most people in their daily lives are not talking about Brexit.
 

RobinBHM

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You really don’t need to post this for me Robin, two of my very good friends are staunch remainers & post this sort of stuff up regularly on social media but just as this is going on in our own government the same is happening in the EU, it’s why I have very little time or respect for politics of any flavour, the corruption is endemic.
What we need is more transparency & accountability though it will never happen as there are too many noses in the trough with vested interests to let that happen.Just look at Neil & Glenys Kinnock with estimated EU earnings of £10,000,000 over a 15 year period not bad little earner eh
Your argument for Brexit....is because it gets the UK away from corruption.

But the very purpose of Brexit is to enable corruption, cronyism, deregulation etc etc.

I'm not sure appreciate the irony.

By the way Nigel Farage has a nice EU pension.
 

doctor Bob

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The most amazing thing this thread shows me, to date, is the amount of hours and research people are prepared to put in to try to win an internet arguement.
Lot and lots of links and articles posted, enormous amounts of google foo. Of course specifically selected articles from left or right wing papers, to suit their purpose.
Just think if Jacob had expended just 0.5% of that google foo, on checking that the ridiculous form he was sent was incorrect (which surely as a remotely intelligent man he must have suspected) then he would have resolved the situation almost instantaniously compared with the current 2 weeks of debate (plus 4 previous years).
At present the binaryness is at stalemate for interested parties. However as I have said before 95% of the public don't care, don'tcare who's in power, etc ........... it's just not important to most people.
I like popping in, but it sucks you in and wastes so much time.
Dad is very poorly and going into 24hr care, makes you realise wasting time is not good, good luck guys, remember that this debate is unwinable, don't waste too much time, make sure you get priorities right.
 

Jonm

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The most amazing thing this thread shows me, to date, is the amount of hours and research people are prepared to put in to try to win an internet arguement.
Lot and lots of links and articles posted, enormous amounts of google foo. Of course specifically selected articles from left or right wing papers, to suit their purpose.
Just think if Jacob had expended just 0.5% of that google foo, on checking that the ridiculous form he was sent was incorrect (which surely as a remotely intelligent man he must have suspected) then he would have resolved the situation almost instantaniously compared with the current 2 weeks of debate (plus 4 previous years).
At present the binaryness is at stalemate for interested parties. However as I have said before 95% of the public don't care, don'tcare who's in power, etc ........... it's just not important to most people.
I like popping in, but it sucks you in and wastes so much time.
Dad is very poorly and going into 24hr care, makes you realise wasting time is not good, good luck guys, remember that this debate is unwinable, don't waste too much time, make sure you get priorities right.
You are quite correct. this post is like a drug, it is addictive. I drop in, see something I disagree with and comment, then someone responds and I am sucked in.
 

julianf

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Some of us are feeling the negative effects of brexit constantly.

We dont need an internet thread to "remind" us - we are actually living the poor consequences.

Until those poor consequences have either been around for so long they just become background, or are resolved, its unlikely we will look upon the whole situation as anything more than it is.
 

doctor Bob

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Some of us are feeling the negative effects of brexit constantly.

We dont need an internet thread to "remind" us - we are actually living the poor consequences.

Until those poor consequences have either been around for so long they just become background, or are resolved, its unlikely we will look upon the whole situation as anything more than it is.
Do you think spending time on a woodwork forum is benefitting you then, or helping to resolve the matter.
I would have thought spending the time on a more government focused forum / website would feel more pro active, I don't think Boris is on here.
My point was at the OP, who couldn't fill in the correct 2minute form but will quite happily spend probably a total of days on an internet thread.
 

Doug B

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Your argument for Brexit....is because it gets the UK away from corruption.

But the very purpose of Brexit is to enable corruption, cronyism, deregulation etc etc.

I'm not sure appreciate the irony.

By the way Nigel Farage has a nice EU pension.
Mine is in no way an argument for that Robin Ive merely pointed out that the EU isn’t the shinning embodiment that some make it out to be, I’m more than willing to say our government is corrupt as is the EU but remainers seem unwilling to admit this.

Take Farage as an example, I have total distain for the bloke if anything he proves what a gravy train the EU has become, as you quite rightly say he will receive a pension on top of having been paid exorbitant amounts of money for doing nothing, I can’t remember the exact details but apparently in one year he only turned up a couple of times but still received full pay & expenses, how can that be right? But that’s the system the EU has, no accountability.
 
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