carving tools what you think?

[Lons]

The problem for a beginner is that given too large a selection of chisels can be difficult to choose the correct one and despite what the books and experts say, with few exceptions, it is not an exact science which needs a specific profile for a specific cut. When starting out, I know I was impatient to produce something that at least resembled what I was trying to do and the vast majority of hobby carvers will never get to a stage of needing numerous tools. I have a friend who was a semi pro carver and artist and he produced some amazing work, especially fine details in faces and hands and his collection of chisels was around a dozen.
I had the pleasure of watching an old walking stick maker from Northumberland about 20 years ago when he was helping my mate with his carving nightclasses. To my eternal shame I can't remember his name now and he was about 80 then, I do know he published a booklet and made sticks for the royal family. Anyway he produced some rather "dead" carvings of shooting scenes etc but the detail in them was astonishing - he used 4 chisels and a couple of files!

I haven't counted my chisels lately but many of them are there because I love to own tools and they were too good to turn down. e.g. I got 22 of them by a wanted add in the local paper. Guy who sold the was in his eighties and had never used what were his fathers tools. Some sadly too rusted but the remainder - well worth having.

My favourite chisel is a Pfeil 1/2" fishtail and I recon I do 60% + of my cutting with that alone.

Bob

edit: Blimey - just realised I've written another bloody essay - must get out more :?

 

[bugbear]

edit: Blimey - just realised I've written another bloody essay - must get out more :?

Your essay was a pleasure to read.

BugBear

 

[Lons]

edit: Blimey - just realised I've written another bloody essay - must get out more :?

Your essay was a pleasure to read.

BugBear

:lol: :lol: :lol: Guess I'm not the only one who needs to get out more then :roll:

 

[condeesteso]

A couple of thoughts: BBs search - very impressive!
And which ones to get? - it's the eternal problem. Isn't every workshop populated with tools, many of which are rarely if ever used. That happens because it takes time (probably years) to discover which are best for what you do. And as time goes by I think you use fewer of them. BUT to discover which those great ones are, you need to get them first and that involves getting some you won't use much.
Bob's story about the guy with 4 chisels and 2 files makes the point because they were the ones he USED (what's in the shed??). And many great makers are in part famous for how few tools they use, or how dodgy their workbench is... etc.
So my point is - you find the best tools for you over time, but in the process you acquire a load that you won't end up using.
Then, one day you start acquiring tools you know you won't use - but that is another story, for another day.

 

[powertools]

A couple of thoughts: BBs search - very impressive!
And which ones to get? - it's the eternal problem. Isn't every workshop populated with tools, many of which are rarely if ever used. That happens because it takes time (probably years) to discover which are best for what you do. And as time goes by I think you use fewer of them. BUT to discover which those great ones are, you need to get them first and that involves getting some you won't use much.
Bob's story about the guy with 4 chisels and 2 files makes the point because they were the ones he USED (what's in the shed??). And many great makers are in part famous for how few tools they use, or how dodgy their workbench is... etc.
So my point is - you find the best tools for you over time, but in the process you acquire a load that you won't end up using.
Then, one day you start acquiring tools you know you won't use - but that is another story, for another day.

That is so true.

 

[bosshogg]

Just bought the set of fostner bits from this weeks Lidl Monday madness £2.99, not sharp enough for using out of the box, but a quick lic with my diamond (also Lidl) honing tool and wow brilliant. Don't knock something just cause it's cheap, a good tradesmen can just about work with any tool...bosshogg

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
Albert Einstein (hammer)

 

[condeesteso]

(There's nothing wrong with new Stanley/Record planes).

This thread is about carving tools and I do like to stay on-thread :lol: but I regard that as bad advice. They are dreadful. The old ones are massively better, and less than half the price at the VERY most.

 

[GazPal]

(There's nothing wrong with new Stanley/Record planes).

This thread is about carving tools and I do like to stay on-thread :lol: but I regard that as bad advice. They are dreadful. The old ones are massively better, and less than half the price at the VERY most.

Bad advice. On which basis? Whilst I respect your point of view regarding Stanley and Record hand planes I expect the same in return, but please let's not pluck quotes and resort to using them out of context (I'd mentioned new hand planes as an example of how new, useable tools needn't break the bank). The basis of my perspective rests upon professional experience as a cabinetmaker : luthier using carving and carpentry tools daily for in excess of 40 years and yours is? My son is presently apprenticing as a cabinetmaker and hasn't suffered any problems using his set of Stanley hand planes. My hand plane maker of choice is Record and my everyday working hand planes range in age from 1860 - 2007, but most pre-date 1975. I don't have a problem advocating the use of new tools manufactured by the above makers and few of those I know in the trade would steer away from them. Such tools fit well within the budget of those who can't afford / justify purchasing LN / Veritas tools, nor have the energy or time to expend upon potentially restoring / fettling older pieces of kit.

In terms of carving chisels, I work using a selection from in excess of 33 chisels of various types and sizes. I began with a very basic set of six and added to/replaced them over the years. Choice of chisel ultimately depends upon the detail I'm carving, but I make no bones about the fact that there's nothing wrong with buying a full set of chisels, nor singles if one wishes to and there certainly isn't anything wrong in someone casually spending their pennies on a cheap chisel set if he / she wishes to gain a feel for carving BEFORE going on a treasure hunt or spending more than they paid for their cheap set on one chisel.

Yes, SOME old timers made do with a small number of tools, but the number doing so was minimal, whilst others worked from multiple tool chests and cabinets (My grandfather, gr grandfather and gr gr grandfather worked from multiple tool chests). Which was the better option? I'm not a romantic and the answer tends to be neither, because both approaches have merit and ones approach depends upon working style and preferences.

 

[GazPal]

Just bought the set of fostner bits from this weeks Lidl Monday madness £2.99, not sharp enough for using out of the box, but a quick lic with my diamond (also Lidl) honing tool and wow brilliant. Don't knock something just cause it's cheap, a good tradesmen can just about work with any tool...bosshogg

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
Albert Einstein (hammer)

I couldn't agree more. :wink:

 

[Melinda_dd]

I'm sure that these tools won't be of the highest quality but I along with many others would be interested to know if they have kept your interest in woodwork or have put you off for life.

I will let you know how I get on..... if I have any fingers left!
Nothing would put me off my woodwork!!! even when I have the worst time in my workshop/tiny shed! I still have that itch to do more, read more, learn more about anything wood!!

Kind of still on thread...... vices? I don't want to spend a fortune tho, as this will be the first carving I have ever done.
Or is there a homemade something i could use whilst playing?

 

[bosshogg]

As a postscript, I recently offered to regrind a set of Chinese chisels for a neighbour, you know the kind plastic wallet of four, one each 1/4" 1/2" 3/4" and 1", wooden handle with flimsy ferule at the end of the handles for hammer to strike, well I brought up new edges with a honing guide and a course diamond plate, then polished the edge on my Escher stone. Following a good bit of mixed work the edge was still capable of sharpening a pencil (not so easy with a blunt edge) The moral is, don't judge a book by it's cover as the saying goes , sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised. The honing guide was a Faithful brand, something like £3.49 which I have re shaped all my irons with, no apparent deterioration, diamond plates Lidl's, set of three £2.99, was using the fine one today, terrific performer. All done on a bench made from scrap pallets and a reclaimed solid core door blank £0.00
you don't need money just a good imagination and try try and try again mentality...bosshogg

"There are always two choices. Two paths to take.
One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy." (hammer)

 

[Lons]

Kind of still on thread...... vices? I don't want to spend a fortune tho, as this will be the first carving I have ever done.
Or is there a homemade something i could use whilst playing?

:lol: How long is a piece of string? :lol: :lol:

A multitude of ways to hold a carving but it very much depends on what type e. in the round, relief, miniature, huge.

very easy to use an existing vice whether machine or woodworking or a B&D workmate, G clamps, carvers screw etc. There are also many home made devices - just do a search on Google to get inspiration.

I made the one in the pis, more than 20 years ago, cribbed from a woodworking Mag. It was supposed to be a prototype but worked well for lightweight carving and I never replaced it.

I suspect you'll already have something to try out with even if somewhat restrictive initially.

PS that simple rabbit has been sitting there for 10 years the intended recipient is too old for it now :lol: :lol:

cheers

Bob

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.

 

[bugbear]

Kind of still on thread...... vices? I don't want to spend a fortune tho, as this will be the first carving I have ever done.
Or is there a homemade something i could use whilst playing?

Tricky question. Sort of.

(minor sidebar; whilst hand tool woodworking can be cheap, one of the key requirements
when doing lots of stock prep with hand planes is a very heavy/rigid bench. This will
be a good deal more expensive than the bench needed for power tool work)

What sort of carving are you going to try? I'm guessing chip carving is out, since you've
bought chisels (not knives), but that still leaves bad-relief, gothic, linen fold panels,
acanthus leaves for furniture, claw and ball feet for tables, or figurative "in the round"
carving, abstract, to name but some...

Most of these have distinct work holding requirments.

I would also suggest finding a slightly more specialised forum; I don't think
we have many carvers here, although some things from general
woodwork are applicable.

BugBear

 

[condeesteso]

Gary ! (I know this is about carving chisels but this warrants a response.)
I seem to have annoyed you.
I simply said that new Stanleys and Records were not good, and that the old ones are far better and far cheaper.
I am absolutely convinced that a new Stanley plane isn't worth tuning as it will take far too long and never work well. And for a beginner it's near useless as it will never work straight out of the box.
We do seem to agree on the old Records and Stanleys and your planes are pre 1975? (Some of the best I have are Record SSs, and pre-1920 Stanleys).

So if you want to explain why a new Stanley No4 at say £65 is better than an old Record No4 for say £30... do so, but just stick to facts.
The rest of your long response seems irrelevant to the point I made.

 

[jimi43]

I don't think that you have to be a professional to see instantly the difference between turn-of-the-century cast steel (1900 not 2000!).....20s steel...pre-WWII steel and pre-shed steel.

There has been a progressive cheapening of the raw materials and processes to the point where most tools available for "the trade" are made from recycled George Formby grills in some Far Eastern factory..... :mrgreen:

I accidentally saw a "Record" by Irwin (ha...ha...) spokeshave in BBQ the other day and I was astounded how far down the road to cheap tat they have gone....

I won't be swayed but if anyone wants to pick up their tools next to the dog food...please go ahead....have fun....it's all part of the learning process.

I might be accused of sounding snobbish...far from it....just because I won't buy my tools in a supermarket until Waitrose starts selling them...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted:

Jim

 

[powertools]

Now you have upset me, there is nothing wrong with George Formby grills

 

[dunbarhamlin]

(minor sidebar; whilst hand tool woodworking can be cheap, one of the key requirements
when doing lots of stock prep with hand planes is a very heavy/rigid bench. This will
be a good deal more expensive than the bench needed for power tool work)

Sorry, I can't agree with that. A very sturdy bench can be made in a long morning out of a few fence posts. Doesn't even need fancy joinery, and cost probably comparable to one of the better workmate knockoffs.
And from a safety point of view, a bench for portable power tools wants to be no less sturdy.

 

[Jacob]

(minor sidebar; whilst hand tool woodworking can be cheap, one of the key requirements
when doing lots of stock prep with hand planes is a very heavy/rigid bench. This will
be a good deal more expensive than the bench needed for power tool work)

Sorry, I can't agree with that. A very sturdy bench can be made in a long morning out of a few fence posts. Doesn't even need fancy joinery, and cost probably comparable to one of the better workmate knockoffs......

Agree. The green woodworkers have tuned it into an art form with shave horses and other gadgets

 

[bugbear]

(minor sidebar; whilst hand tool woodworking can be cheap, one of the key requirements
when doing lots of stock prep with hand planes is a very heavy/rigid bench. This will
be a good deal more expensive than the bench needed for power tool work)

Sorry, I can't agree with that. A very sturdy bench can be made in a long morning out of a few fence posts. Doesn't even need fancy joinery, and cost probably comparable to one of the better workmate knockoffs.
And from a safety point of view, a bench for portable power tools wants to be no less sturdy.

I exert a damn sight more force on bench when using a jack plane for stock prep than anybody
cutting joints (etc) with a router ever will.

My bench, designed for handwork, has 4" legs and a 3" top. If I was going to be a power tooly, I'd probably
have used 2" legs and a (single layer) 3/4" top.

BugBear

 

[flounder]

I now have images in my head of George Formby boxing and George Foreman playing a Ukelele!