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powertools":240nxch0 said:
Now you have upset me, there is nothing wrong with George Formby grills :D

Tried playing mine just to see...plink-a plink-a-plink...I'm leaning on a lamp post at the corner of the street.
in case a certain little lady goes by... damn, there goes another piece of bacon and all my sausages :lol: :lol: :lol:

...bosshogg :D
 
flounder":3c3tzq5d said:
I now have images in my head of George Formby boxing and George Foreman playing a Ukelele!

There are two types...the George Forman grill and the George Formby grill....the latter is a second and doesn't come with a box!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I'll get me coat..... :oops:

Jim
 
condeesteso":9rry316k said:
Gary ! (I know this is about carving chisels but this warrants a response.)
I seem to have annoyed you.
I simply said that new Stanleys and Records were not good, and that the old ones are far better and far cheaper.
I am absolutely convinced that a new Stanley plane isn't worth tuning as it will take far too long and never work well. And for a beginner it's near useless as it will never work straight out of the box.
We do seem to agree on the old Records and Stanleys and your planes are pre 1975? (Some of the best I have are Record SSs, and pre-1920 Stanleys).

So if you want to explain why a new Stanley No4 at say £65 is better than an old Record No4 for say £30... do so, but just stick to facts.
The rest of your long response seems irrelevant to the point I made.

You used an exclamation mark and not I. If I'd been annoyed I would have said so, but I do find your perspective a tad blinkered in favour of old tools over new.

Facts. My son's Stanley hand planes (#'s 4, 4.5, 5, 6 & 7, 90, 92, 93) were bought for him (By me) last year and needed no fettling in order to work and produce decent shavings once the frogs were adjusted and blades whetted (Approx. 15 mins each). Yes, of course my Record/Stanley/Union, etc. planes and tools are predominantly pre-1975. This is because I began woodworking and buying tools back in 70-71, plus inherited cabinetry tools from my forebears.

However, whilst buying old tools in need of minimal work is perfectly possible, most are in need of work and this can lead to greater cost if/when replacing or repairing parts.

I'd not said new Stanley planes were better than old Record planes, as they're pretty much equal when tuned (Frog adjusted & blade sharpened), but - as touched upon earlier - buying an old hand plane (Any make) brings with it the risk of inheriting an earlier owner's mistakes. Whereas you may be keen on tool renovation, not everyone wishes to have to revitalise a piece of kit before using it. Especially if a beginner.
 
jimi43":nmrgh3s9 said:
flounder":nmrgh3s9 said:
I now have images in my head of George Formby boxing and George Foreman playing a Ukelele!

There are two types...the George Forman grill and the George Formby grill....the latter is a second and doesn't come with a box!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I'll get me coat..... :oops:

Jim


Mine came with a boxer :D
 
I have to say that I have until today never been into a Lidl store only because there has not been one near me until a new one opened in Luton a couple of weeks ago.
Needing some amber fluid for the weekend I called in and I looked at the carving set and it looks good for the money but as hand tools are not my thing I passed however 4 things from the tool section next to the dog food did fall into my basket I will tell more on the bargain tool thread over the weekend.
The selection of beers is very poor but as a supply of useful kit at silly money it looks promising.
 
Hello Gary. I'll leave the last word to you (after this):
"I'd not said new Stanley planes were better than old Record planes, as they're pretty much equal when tuned (Frog adjusted & blade sharpened)"
Now I don't actually believe you have any old Records (with the crucible cast blade), because that statement is so profoundly untrue.
I was given a new Stanley No4 by a neighbour a few years ago, still in its box. I checked the sole, concave at least 6 thou. Put it back in the box where it remains to this day. Plastic knob and tote, poorly bedded frog, cheesy cap-iron...
 
condeesteso":3b0vzsea said:
...
I was given a new Stanley No4 by a neighbour a few years ago, still in its box. I checked the sole, concave at least 6 thou. Put it back in the box where it remains to this day. Plastic knob and tote, poorly bedded frog, cheesy cap-iron...
Yebbut did you try planing with it? To be realistic 6 thou is nothing. Plastic knob and tote - you get what you pay for, they have no bearing on the utility of the plane.
What does "cheesy cap-iron" mean?
They all need "commissioning", after which they are OK.
 
condeesteso":3k0tfe41 said:
Hello Gary. I'll leave the last word to you (after this):
"I'd not said new Stanley planes were better than old Record planes, as they're pretty much equal when tuned (Frog adjusted & blade sharpened)"
Now I don't actually believe you have any old Records (with the crucible cast blade), because that statement is so profoundly untrue.
I was given a new Stanley No4 by a neighbour a few years ago, still in its box. I checked the sole, concave at least 6 thou. Put it back in the box where it remains to this day. Plastic knob and tote, poorly bedded frog, cheesy cap-iron...

Believe what you will, but which aspect of hand plane tuning can't you understand? Frog adjustment includes seat adjustment if necessary and they tend not to take long to re-seat.

I'll ignore your comment regarding my supposedly not owning planes with crucible cast steel irons. :lol:

The argument is endless in terms of plane blades and the many alloy steel variations they're made from. Whether you wish to consider Record's crucible cast steel, tungsten steel, or tungsten vanadium steel (Depending upon era/production period) I have a good selection of their irons with normal and stay-set cap irons and find all (Including their new irons) are capable of taking and holding a good edge, but they're easily swapped out for other irons in differing alloys of steel or forms of lamination. The steel alloy used obviously affects cutting, but not necessarily handling characteristics which stem from the combination of iron and iron holder (Complete hand plane body). Hence the number of Frankenplanes in existence.

Regarding your friends problem plane and tool selection in general. Quite possibly the best approach toward tool selection is to choose from a number of samples and cherry pick the best for oneself in the way the majority of craftsmen used to (Carpentry and masonry being two crafts with which I'm particularly familiar) and I have done since before being apprenticed as a cabinetmaker all those years ago. This approach to hand tool selection is not necessarily possible now due to the rise of internet trading and distance sales/mail order, but it was the normal approach when craftsmen purchased tools via brick and mortar shops retailing professional tools. The principle reason for this preference is that hand tools differ from sample to sample and none are identical in heft (Potentially toe/heel heavy or well balanced or even bent, twisted like a corkscrew, or straight). Pick up a potential dud like the one your friend fobbed off on you and the best approach is to discard it if you feel there's a problem that can't be easily addressed.

I've three new/boxed Stanley hand planes (#'s 4.5, 5 & 6) waiting to be commissioned for my son's second set of planes and none have the problems you've alluded to, but I do tend to deliberately choose each from a selection instead of accepting the first sample that's handed to me. I inspect everything before paying for a hand tool, as it's easier to return something across a counter top than later find there's a problem and have to return to the shop in order to exchange for another or request a refund. Yes, newer bench planes tend to have plastic handles, but varnished timber and painted metal handles can prove just as tacky during use unless their annealed finish is rubbed out and you keep your hands dry. I don't have a problem with whether or not a hand plane has a timber or plastic handle as handles are soon adjusted (Carved,scraped & sanded) to suit my hands and seldom remain in "factory finish/form".
 
GazPal":2bhxcwcb said:
.......... I have a good selection of their irons with normal and stay-set cap irons

How are your toes Gazza....if you have survived this makes you a true master of the falling cap iron...you are aware of this aren't you?! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim
 
jimi43":gkpynvat said:
GazPal":gkpynvat said:
.......... I have a good selection of their irons with normal and stay-set cap irons

How are your toes Gazza....if you have survived this makes you a true master of the falling cap iron...you are aware of this aren't you?! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

Jim

Through habit, I tend to wear steel toe capped shoes/boots in the shop Jim, although I've heard of exocet S-S nose pieces hitting their target toes on more than a few occasions. :wink: 40+ years in the trade and I still haven't reached true Jedi status yet. :lol:

It's funny you should mention the debilitating effects of falling stay-set nose pieces, but can't recall ever having one drop on my tootsies or disappear among shavings on the floor, although I did used to fumble a little before growing used to them. It'll now probably happen later today or sometime soon. :oops: I think it's just a case of being well used to working with stay-set cap irons and sticking to a given routine when touching up irons with them fitted. All I do is remove the nose piece as I lift the blade from it's seat and replace it as I re-seat the freshly whetted iron. One of my younger brothers uses Clifton hand planes and their new version of the stay-set, combined with their irons and the overall feel and heft of their planes makes them a lovely piece of kit. If setting out again I'd personally invest in Clifton planes, but I'm nicely settled into using my selection of Records and will leave that sort of buying decison to my sons. :)
 
That's good to hear Gary....because I do hear tell there are type that were made just after the war from melted down Messerschmitts that have a homing action. They have been known to come out of the sun and are particularly adept at evading bench tops. :mrgreen:

I am considering fixing rare earth magnets to the side of my bench to deflect their trajectory on the way down but I feel this adds to the cost of the plane, money which could be better spent buying dog food in Aldi..... :wink:

Stay safe...enjoy your woodworking and most importantly...keep wearing the steel toecap boots.... 8)

Jim
 
jimi43":2c2obywc said:
That's good to hear Gary....because I do hear tell there are type that were made just after the war from melted down Messerschmitts that have a homing action. They have been known to come out of the sun and are particularly adept at evading bench tops. :mrgreen:

I am considering fixing rare earth magnets to the side of my bench to deflect their trajectory on the way down but I feel this adds to the cost of the plane, money which could be better spent buying dog food in Aldi..... :wink:

Stay safe...enjoy your woodworking and most importantly...keep wearing the steel toecap boots.... 8)

Jim

A couple of strategically placed speaker magnets should foil escape attempts and deflect inertia and trajectory. :wink:

Back to hiding in the workshop with my "it's about time I made a" new tool chest project :D
 
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