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Droogs

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nb. I may be slightly salty because along with Tunnocks Teacakes and Twinings tea going up in price even before Tunnocks or Twinings have a say in things, I am unable to get tuffsaws bandsaw blades any more at all (Ian told me he just isn't shipping due to the VAT), and houseofwood bowl blanks are going to jump so much in price from the customs and shipping that I may actually wind up seeing my timber stock decrease which is, as you can imagine, making my fingernails itch.
I am open to begin tunnock smuggling operations if you feel there is a market
 

RobinBHM

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Le Pen has dropped that, having seen the balls up that Brexit is. Now all the talk is of reform.
The narrative that "EU is about to collapse" is built from hunting down the small minority of Euro sceptic political parties in Europe.

"EU about to collapse" is just Brexit supporters desperate need for validation.
 

Peterm1000

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Sir, it appears you are posting this from the "United Kingdom"? This entity appears to comprise four separate yet not independent countries with a central government that isn't even in three of the countries...

Isn't that the comedy of the whole "I want to rule myself" argument? Where do you draw the line?
 

billw

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Isn't that the comedy of the whole "I want to rule myself" argument? Where do you draw the line?
Much the same with the Basques and Catalans. In fact pretty much all European nations were formed by amalgamation at some point, the anomalies are the remaining microstates such as San Marino, Andorra, and Liechtenstein. At least they are highly unlikely have any secessionist problems within them. Do people want to reverse the map back to the 16th century?
 

Fergie 307

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Le Pen has dropped that, having seen the balls up that Brexit is. Now all the talk is of reform.
Sorry but when someone has spent their whole political life raging against the EU, the Euro, NATO etc etc, I am not entirely convinced when they claim to have turned over a new leaf. It has undoubtedly worked though she got a third of the vote last time.
 

Fergie 307

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The narrative that "EU is about to collapse" is built from hunting down the small minority of Euro sceptic political parties in Europe.

"EU about to collapse" is just Brexit supporters desperate need for validation.
So the very embarrassing leak of briefing documents prepared for German ministers detailing those countries considered to be at risk of following the UK can just be dismissed as a bit inconvenient, jolly good, no need to lift ones head out of the sand yet.
 

Noel

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So the very embarrassing leak of briefing documents prepared for German ministers detailing those countries considered to be at risk of following the UK can just be dismissed as a bit inconvenient, jolly good, no need to lift ones head out of the sand yet.
Was this the Der Spiegel article?
 

Jacob

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..... those countries considered to be at risk of following the UK .....
They might read things like this first:
BTW can somebody remind me of the benefits of Brexit and how/when they will show up? I keep asking this but all I hear is a deathly hush! In fact it's very quiet out there. Too quiet - just the moaning of unemployed fisherman, HGV drivers, import/exporters, large and small.
 

Jonm

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So the very embarrassing leak of briefing documents prepared for German ministers detailing those countries considered to be at risk of following the UK can just be dismissed as a bit inconvenient, jolly good, no need to lift ones head out of the sand yet.
I cannot find this document. Are you able to post a link
 

Jonm

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They might read things like this first:
BTW can somebody remind me of the benefits of Brexit and how/when they will show up? I keep asking this but all I hear is a deathly hush! In fact it's very quiet out there. Too quiet - just the moaning of unemployed fisherman, HGV drivers, import/exporters, large and small.
The only one I can find is Nissan starting battery production in UK so it meets 55% rules of origin criteria.
 

sploo

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Sorry but when someone has spent their whole political life raging against the EU, the Euro, NATO etc etc, I am not entirely convinced when they claim to have turned over a new leaf. It has undoubtedly worked though she got a third of the vote last time.
It's almost like when a group of individuals who have spent their whole political lives in opposition to publicly funded social services stand in front of a bus claiming they'd spend more money on the NHS :cautious:
 

Fergie 307

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It's almost like when a group of individuals who have spent their whole political lives in opposition to publicly funded social services stand in front of a bus claiming they'd spend more money on the NHS :cautious:
I wouldn't say almost like it, I'd say exactly the same.
 

Fergie 307

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Was this the Der Spiegel article?
Believe so. It was a German finance ministry strategy briefing document. Leaked to the German press. Details Netherlands, France Austia Poland etc, not necessarily in that order. Think they viewed Netherlands as most at risk. This was in 2017 I believe. Talks about extra funding burden on Germany following our departure, and potential consequences of any others.
 

Terry - Somerset

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Remainers are happy to use negative news to reinforce their belief that Brexit was seriously flawed. Brexiteers will trivialise immediate negatives, and point to the glories yet to come (Nissan excepted they have little good news to point to right now).

The tension which leads the EU to centralise power and control is common to all political systems. It arises from a belief that:
  • the centre has greater talents at its disposal than local bodies
  • local bodies are less able or trusted to manage finances properly
  • central coordination is invariably more efficient and rational
  • nations should be managed for the benefit of the nation as a whole, not individual localities
The UK is not materially different with tensions between devolved nations, and at lower levels with county councils, unitary authorities, town councils etc.

It is easy to be attracted to the concept of more local control over local issues with central control over only those things which genuinely need centralisation - eg: defence, foreign affairs, currency etc.

Delegating powers more locally will expose different problems - eg:
  • Barnett formula which clearly shows that Scotland gets a higher than average benefit (what happens on independence)
  • That London and S.East subsidise less affluent parts of the country - paying more tax
  • What revenue raising powers are delegated - local sales taxes, income tax, etc will depend on local political leaning
There is no right answer but a range of opinions. But leaving the EU for the sake of "sovereignty" simply exposes fundamental issues in the way the UK is managed.
 

sploo

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I wouldn't say almost like it, I'd say exactly the same.
Indeed. It worked though.

Believe so. It was a German finance ministry strategy briefing document. Leaked to the German press. Details Netherlands, France Austia Poland etc, not necessarily in that order. Think they viewed Netherlands as most at risk. This was in 2017 I believe. Talks about extra funding burden on Germany following our departure, and potential consequences of any others.
I rather suspect that the very public hash the UK has made of leaving (not that any way of leaving wouldn't have caused some issues) will make the populations of other EU countries wary of voting to join us in our act of self-vandalism. At least for a few years anyway.
 

jcassidy

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I rather suspect that the very public hash the UK has made of leaving (not that any way of leaving wouldn't have caused some issues) will make the populations of other EU countries wary of voting to join us in our act of self-vandalism. At least for a few years anyway.
For a few years anyway. For example, Lega Nord in Italy is built around the idea of the heavy-industry-laden northern regions (Lombardy, Veneto, etc.) hiving off from the poorer south. Much like the SNP. They're very keen on a vote for ITALEXIT, if only as a precusor to a vote on NORDEXIT!

Never mind the fascist illeberal regimes in Poland and Hungary. Once the spigot of German cash stops flowing, they'll be having a think about what benefits they might get from being outside (next stop, Russia-client dictatorships)
 
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