Bandsaw bearings

[Niall Church]

Is there an alternative bearing system for a Basa3 scheppach bandsaw?

 

[bourbon]

welcome to the forum

 

[Sideways]

?
Whatever's in it, just replace with same size but better quality ?
Bearings are relatively cheap. Take them out, read the part number on the side or measure them up then call BearingsRus or Bearingboys ....
They are a consumable taken in the long term.
I'm not aware of any retrofit kit but equally can't think why it would be profitable for anyone to try and sell such a thing.

A year back, @deema and myself renovated an SCM bandsaw. Being engineers, we got to wondering about how long the new bearings we fitted ought to last. This paste is from out old thread...

"Last bit of ‘boring stuff’ before we get back to doing stuff. Sideways today made a good analogy. A Range Rover Sport (not that either of us have one) weights with a single driver and all fluids around 2000Kg. Each wheel therefore sees around 500KG or c4900N which is exactly the tension required for a 20mm M42 blade.

So, wheel bearings typically have a life of c100,000 miles or, c 161000KM.
A Range Rover Sport tyre has a circumference of 2.54M
So, the wheel rotates 63,385,826 times in the bearings expected total life.

The bandsaw rotates at 750RPM, so the bearings will have done the same amount of work as the car wheel bearings in 1408hrs. A little less than the L10 (which is roughly work they need to do for there to be a 10% chance they will have failed) for this bandsaws wheel bearings!

However, the car wheel bearings are significantly larger, they are around 90mm OD and have a width of 51mm. Where as the 6202 used in the bandsaw are only 35mm OD and only 11mm wide.

The bearings in a bandsaw are doing a lot of work!"

(L10 is the lifetime of a given bearing, in hours, at which point statistically, 10% of bearings will have failed, so 90% will last longer. A quality bearing will have data like that available in the specifications because the manufacturer will have tested enough of them to be able to predict.)
(Also, a properly tensioned 20mm M42 blade is a lot of force. The basa 3 might not even be capable of that, so the bearings might last longer)

 

[pgrbff]

Is there an alternative bearing system for a Basa3 scheppach bandsaw?

I will assume you are talking about the blade guides. I have a Basa1 and a large cast iron bandsaw for restoration. Carter products in the US have many kits but I don't think any Scheppach replacements. Scott + Sargent also have some relacements but probably too big. I found carefully set up the guide on the Basa1 worked relatively well.

 

[Niall Church]

I will assume you are talking about the blade guides. I have a Basa1 and a large cast iron bandsaw for restoration. Carter products in the US have many kits but I don't think any Scheppach replacements. Scott + Sargent also have some relacements but probably too big. I found carefully set up the guide on the Basa1 worked relatively well.

But,surely there could be a way to make ones for it? Does your basa 1 have lateral blade guides or ball bearing type?

 

[Spectric]

If you post some pictures of what you currently have then it might give people an idea as to what might be feasable and also how far are you willing to go in modifying the machine. @MikeK did some serious modifications to his bandsaw to fit different top and bottom blade guides that involved some cutting of the frame so the more adventurous you are the more the possibilities.

You have also not mentioned what you don't like about the standard setup and what is the problem.

 

[pgrbff]

But,surely there could be a way to make ones for it? Does your basa 1 have lateral blade guides or ball bearing type?

No bearings as far as I can remember. I haven't used it for a while, just taken delivery of a Hammer N2 35.

 

[yetloh]

?
Whatever's in it, just replace with same size but better quality ?
Bearings are relatively cheap. Take them out, read the part number on the side or measure them up then call BearingsRus or Bearingboys ....
They are a consumable taken in the long term.
I'm not aware of any retrofit kit but equally can't think why it would be profitable for anyone to try and sell such a thing.

A year back, @deema and myself renovated an SCM bandsaw. Being engineers, we got to wondering about how long the new bearings we fitted ought to last. This paste is from out old thread...

"Last bit of ‘boring stuff’ before we get back to doing stuff. Sideways today made a good analogy. A Range Rover Sport (not that either of us have one) weights with a single driver and all fluids around 2000Kg. Each wheel therefore sees around 500KG or c4900N which is exactly the tension required for a 20mm M42 blade.

So, wheel bearings typically have a life of c100,000 miles or, c 161000KM.
A Range Rover Sport tyre has a circumference of 2.54M
So, the wheel rotates 63,385,826 times in the bearings expected total life.

The bandsaw rotates at 750RPM, so the bearings will have done the same amount of work as the car wheel bearings in 1408hrs. A little less than the L10 (which is roughly work they need to do for there to be a 10% chance they will have failed) for this bandsaws wheel bearings!

However, the car wheel bearings are significantly larger, they are around 90mm OD and have a width of 51mm. Where as the 6202 used in the bandsaw are only 35mm OD and only 11mm wide.

The bearings in a bandsaw are doing a lot of work!"

(L10 is the lifetime of a given bearing, in hours, at which point statistically, 10% of bearings will have failed, so 90% will last longer. A quality bearing will have data like that available in the specifications because the manufacturer will have tested enough of them to be able to predict.)
(Also, a properly tensioned 20mm M42 blade is a lot of force. The basa 3 might not even be capable of that, so the bearings might last longer)

Interesting and nicely worked out analogy. I'm no fan of the Chelsea tractor, but I think its wheel bearings would be subject to much higher loads than the analogy suggests when used in the conditions with which it was designed to cope rather than Chelsea High Street. Off road or during spirited country road use the bearings would be subjected to considerable sideways forces from steering, lateral cornering loads and shock loads arising from pot holes, boulders etc. Even so, a very good way to illustrate just how hard bandsaw bearings have to work.

Jim

 

[Niall Church]

Here's some photos of bearings,i suppose the the conpression bearing is the problem,in it's too big,and if I push it back,at any stage it will hit the llower bearing ,or the column with numbers on it above that bearing or it will hit the pin the housing for all 3 bearings is held on beside it!

I also post phot of blade,now some say putbit at the front so ryrw isn't damaged by blade,but,book says leave in middle of tyre!

 

[deema]

The blade guide system you have looks to be a really good one, similar to what you find in the top quality industrial machines. You don’t want to be changing it. The problem is that the guide carrier that holds the three blade guides is too far as you look at it over to the right. There is normally lateral adjustment on the guide carrier holder to allow it to be moved horizontally. Usually its just a bolt or cap screw that you slacken and move the carrier left or right as it’s usually a slot that the bolt passes through.

For blade guides if your familiar with what exactly they do have a read of my thread:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/bandsaw-blade-guide-theory.135481/

 

[Spectric]

They look very similar to the Record BS400 and that means you could with some modification probably use the later Record Sabre bearings which is what I think @MikeK used. I believe the top ones are an easy change but the lower ones are more difficult and from a lot of bandsaw reads it is the top bearings that do most of the work so maybe just change the top ones.

 

[MikeK]

They look very similar to the Record BS400 and that means you could with some modication probably use the later Record Sabre bearings which is what I think @MikeK used. I believe the top ones are an easy change but the lower ones are more difficult and from a lot of bandsaw reads it is the top bearings that do most of the work so maybe just change the top ones.

Here's the thread I made on my bandsaw. The blade guides are used on some Rikon models in the U.S. and appear to be the same used on the Sabre350. The upper guides were easy to change, but not so easy for the lower guides. However, one UK company that sells replacement guides for the BS350S only sells the upper guides since he states they do about 80-percent of the work.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...ide-upgrade-using-rikon-tool-less-kit.124508/

 

[Niall Church]

The blade guide system you have looks to be a really good one, similar to what you find in the top quality industrial machines. You don’t want to be changing it. The problem is that the guide carrier that holds the three blade guides is too far as you look at it over to the right. There is normally lateral adjustment on the guide carrier holder to allow it to be moved horizontally. Usually its just a bolt or cap screw that you slacken and move the carrier left or right as it’s usually a slot that the bolt passes through.

For blade guides if your familiar with what exactly they do have a read of my thread:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/bandsaw-blade-guide-theory.135481/

Thanks but,as you might see, if I move it sideways he blade will miss the top bearing!

 

[Niall Church]

Thanks but,as you might see, if I move it sideways he blade will miss the top bearing!

I think one of the problems is the top bearing is too big in diameter by about 3mm ! If it was smaller you could move the whole unit left,and there would be more thread on the left side bearing,as it is there's no more to move on that side bearing!

 

[Ttrees]

Looks like the arrangement of the side rollers needs to be scooted over to the left,
so the position of the whole assembly needs be scooted to the right.

edit: I see Deema has said this already.

 

[Sideways]

What you are calling the top bearing - the back or thrust roller in the upper blade guide, may be on an eccentric pivot. Wind both side guides fully out then undo the grub screw holding the brass stem of the rear guide and pull it back away from the blade. Try rotating the brass stem in the hole and see if the thrust disc moves side to side.

Also, in addition to, or instead of, that way of positioning the rear roller behind the blade, it's common for the entire upper guide assembly to have some side to side adjustment where it fastens to the height adjustable arm that supports it.

Read @deema's thread.

Then back out all your blade guides, top and bottom, check the blade tracks correctly on both wheels, learn how to adjust if it doesn't, and at the very end, bring all 6 of your guides back to a cigarette paper's thickness away from the blade. They should not rub / roll when the saw is not cutting, and if the blade is properly tight and well tracked, and the wood is not forced, they shouldn't do much work when you are cutting either.

Blade guides shouldn't do much work. They are there as a back stop. Don't waste your money swapping them. Learn how to track and tension the saw properly then it will work as well as it can.

 

[Niall Church]

What you are calling the top bearing - the back or thrust roller in the upper blade guide, may be on an eccentric pivot. Wind both side guides fully out then undo the grub screw holding the brass stem of the rear guide and pull it back away from the blade. Try rotating the brass stem in the hole and see if the thrust disc moves side to side.

Also, in addition to, or instead of, that way of positioning the rear roller behind the blade, it's common for the entire upper guide assembly to have some side to side adjustment where it fastens to the height adjustable arm that supports it.

Read @deema's thread.

Then back out all your blade guides, top and bottom, check the blade tracks correctly on both wheels, learn how to adjust if it doesn't, and at the very end, bring all 6 of your guides back to a cigarette paper's thickness away from the blade. They should not rub / roll when the saw is not cutting, and if the blade is properly tight and well tracked, and the wood is not forced, they shouldn't do much work when you are cutting either.

Blade guides shouldn't do much work. They are there as a back stop. Don't waste your money swapping them. Learn how to track and tension the saw properly then it will work as well as it can.

Im calling it the thrust bearing!

 

[Sideways]

The problem in making up your own names or using imprecise labels for things is that you confuse other people and waste their time - like mine thinking you were talking about the upper wheel bearing....

Notwithstanding that, your blade is tracked in the wrong place. The manual tells you to track it in the middle of the band wheel because the basa 3 will, like most modern bandsaws, have slightly crowned wheels and that is the correct position for it to work properly.

Teeth off the front is a different alignment that applies to flat tyred wheels which are only on a minority of light bandsaws.

Do as your manual tells you.
Fix the tracking and tension first.
Adjust the guides in only once you can make a clean, gentle, cut without them.

 

[Niall Church]

There's no need to be shirty,I was doing my best to explain,no one is forcing you to answer,and as i said some have advised to put blade as is and some say put blade in centre as in book!

 

[deema]

There's no need to be shirty,I was doing my best to explain,no one is forcing you to answer,and as i said some have advised to put blade as is and some say put blade in centre as in book!

Wow, I mean wow! A valued member offers constructive advice and you respond in this way? I like the saying, manners maketh man. Or as I used to buy and give to people who responded in such a way in my meetings the following book which besides sending a message is also something I believe everyone should have read who want to be successful in business.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0091906814