Advice on removing timber window frame in one piece

[Doug71]

If it were properly built in, it'd take a bit more work to free it, but this should be an easy one.

Ah yes, the good old days when they were lugged in and had a groove right round the outside which got filled with mortar, haven't come across one of those for a while, they wouldn't come out in one piece!

 

[baldkev]

Ah yes, the good old days when they were lugged in and had a groove right round the outside which got filled with mortar, haven't come across one of those for a while, they wouldn't come out in one piece!

Yes, they are more fun

To the o.p: Often windows in new builds are installed across the cavity, ( using cavity closers these days ) and then rendered upto them on the outside skin and plastered in on the inside skin, so subsequent replacements are often measured tight to the plaster opening so they just about slide in without doing much damaged ( thats why you end up woth the godawful plastic trims when you get replacement windows )

 

[squib]

Looking for new builders will take longer than a new window.
And as I say this is an easy job for yourself, but ultimately will the building inspector pass it when it's done? It is very easy to ask if he'll be happy with the unit thickness and the opening sizes etc etc before making the decision, then it's up to you. Always best to ask first with building control.

 

[Richard C-D]

@Richard C-D It might be a warning for you to start looking for a new builder if they can't get that out in one piece.

Adam
Thanks for the warning,unfortunately it's too late now. Their objection seems to be more about making the new opening the right size to fit the old window, stuff about brick size and roof height. They prefer to make the opening and then get me to pay for a new window to fit it. They never bothered to produce any plans or drawings.

 

[deema]

Get rid of them. They are rubbish builders.

 

[Phill05]

They prefer to make the opening and then get me to pay for a new window to fit it. They never bothered to produce any plans or drawings.

Richard, That should have been a RED flag to you they are just interested in getting your money and getting down to nearest pub.

You say it's too late it's never too late to stop you getting a headache.

 

[Richard C-D]

Richard, That should have been a RED flag to you they are just interested in getting your money and getting down to nearest pub.

You say it's too late it's never too late to stop you getting a headache.

Hi Phil , It's a bit complicated , friends and family stuff. Their work is a high standard it's just the window that is an issue.

 

[Lons]

Adam
Thanks for the warning,unfortunately it's too late now. Their objection seems to be more about making the new opening the right size to fit the old window, stuff about brick size and roof height. They prefer to make the opening and then get me to pay for a new window to fit it. They never bothered to produce any plans or drawings.

VERY lame excuse. Brick size has bu**er all to do with it, could just as easily be done with stone or Bradstone in different sizes, What has roof height to do with it unless they aren't building to current regs it will make no difference.
Make a frame out of 4x2 the exact or slightly smaller than existing window prop it in place and build brickwork up to it, easy peasy, there is no valid reason not to. They would have to remove the glass and use fixing screws however.
Alternatively if you can live with it, remove the window now, fit frame angles and build the window in as the brickwork goes up. You would have to block up the existing opening on a temporary basis.

I would be having strong words with them were it me. TBH it sounds more than a little dodgy.

PS
If they don't believe you I'm an ex builder who had a very successful small company, put them in touch with me and I'll explain it in language they can understand. E.G. simple IKEA style line drawings

 

[Phill05]

Hi Phil , It's a bit complicated , friends and family stuff. Their work is a high standard it's just the window that is an issue.

Hi Richard, I understand now with F/F you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.
In that case I would make sure they do what you want not what they want to do.

 

[baldkev]

Im a carpenter/ general builder, it really isnt difficult.
Make sure they know you are the boss, its a slippery slope.

 

[mr rusty]

multitool with metal blade and cut through the frame fixings. It'll come out. You may not have to remove all the glass, just those panes to get access to new fixings.

 

[MARK.B.]

When i built my extension I had to submit plans/drawings etc,unless things have changed I would have thought this would still apply. You need to check and see what if any are needed,the last thing you want is to fall foul to the rules and regs as in extreme cases you could be forced to demolish any works done and put things back to how they were.Friends/Family/Mates rates are all well and good but if things go pear shaped you have to foot the bill putting them right.

 

[Jonm]

I can see why a normal builder would say replace with new. Basically get the extension up, watertight and secure, then remove window etc. During these works the window will likely get damaged in any case, unless it is protected. To remove the window probably means they have to bring a carpenter in early for this one off job and replace it with a timber sheet to maintain your security and weatherproofness. An extra process to be organised and paid for.

Personally I would remove the window myself and replace with a timber sheet, before the builders arrive. Always assuming that living without the window is acceptable.

 

[Jonm]

Adam
Thanks for the warning,unfortunately it's too late now. Their objection seems to be more about making the new opening the right size to fit the old window, stuff about brick size and roof height. They prefer to make the opening and then get me to pay for a new window to fit it. They never bothered to produce any plans or drawings.

The width of the window needs to suit brick size so the purps are constant width. In the “good old days” bricks were standard size, made in UK and windows were built in with width and height to suit standard brick size. Not so simple now with imported bricks.

I had a problem with my complete new build, finished about four years ago. Engineering bricks were standard 215mm long whilst the facing bricks I chose were 210mm. Only realised the problem when bricklayer started by staggering the purps as normal and purps were 15mm, looked terrible. Then a case of working out number of bricks per wall for the new size of brick with 10mm joints. Main issue were the doorways, getting the correct width so brick courses would be correct above the door, particularly the wide bifold doors, could not go by bricks below DPC as normal. Of course the purps between facing and engineering bricks do not line up. No one notices and not a structural issue, these courses are effectively de bonded by the DPM.

 

[Richard C-D]

The width of the window needs to suit brick size so the purps are constant width. In the “good old days” bricks were standard size, made in UK and windows were built in with width and height to suit standard brick size. Not so simple now with imported bricks.

I had a problem with my complete new build, finished about four years ago. Engineering bricks were standard 215mm long whilst the facing bricks I chose were 210mm. Only realised the problem when bricklayer started by staggering the purps as normal and purps were 15mm, looked terrible. Then a case of working out number of bricks per wall for the new size of brick with 10mm joints. Main issue were the doorways, getting the correct width so brick courses would be correct above the door, particularly the wide bifold doors, could not go by bricks below DPC as normal. Of course the purps between facing and engineering bricks do not line up. No one notices and not a structural issue, these courses are effectively de bonded by the DPM.

View attachment 152695

Hi , Thanks for the explanation, much better than the builders. The foundations went in and bricks up to DPC this week. This looks like the same sort of bricks as you have at ground level and are 210mm. If the rest of the wall uses the same brick size the old window will be a perfect fit. At a pinch I could remove up to10mm from each side of the window if it's too wide. I can't take the window out until the extension is built but I'll be helping them when they're ready. Now I'm clued up on what to do I'll make sure they don't just cut it up and bin it.

Thanks to everyone else who has replied , much appreciated.

 

[Lons]

Just to add to that, if the brickies can't get around smaller brick sizes without it looking like a pig's ear then they aren't much cop and which ever bricks they use are will need some careful work to match in to your existing house wall looking at the photo. A skilled bricklayer will have no problem and will be well used to that. I built a rear extension on to my son's 1890 Victorian house a few years ago, old 3" bricks and we did our best to make the new bricks look old and not too much out of place, it wasn't difficult.
Standard UK bricks have a tolerance of around +/- 6mm, they have to have that because it's a fired clay product so the older experienced guys are well used to differing sizes and indeed shapes. Most of the manufacturers publish technical size/tolerance reports unless things have changed since I retired.

 

[Jonm]

Just to add to that, if the brickies can't get around smaller brick sizes without it looking like a pig's ear then they aren't much cop and which ever bricks they use are will need some careful work to match in to your existing house wall looking at the photo. A skilled bricklayer will have no problem and will be well used to that. I built a rear extension on to my son's 1890 Victorian house a few years ago, old 3" bricks and we did our best to make the new bricks look old and not too much out of place, it wasn't difficult.
Standard UK bricks have a tolerance of around +/- 6mm, they have to have that because it's a fired clay product so the older experienced guys are well used to differing sizes and indeed shapes. Most of the manufacturers publish technical size/tolerance reports unless things have changed since I retired.

I agree, a good bricklayer can get over problems like this, but it involves extra work. From Richards response it appears that the window suits brick length. I was just trying to explain what the builder was talking about.

 

[Matty]

Just did this for a customer but with 2 UPVC windows. As a few people have already advised, multi tool or cut silicone, recip saw the screws or disk cut, if there is foam then almost any hand saw will do.