Advice on dust extraction for a newbie

[Mattatooi]

I know there are loads of threads on this and loads of youtube videos and all sorts, which is exactly why I am making this thread. Information overload you could say! There just appears to be so many ways and types of dust extraction. So I am hoping someone can advice what would be the best unit for my conditions!

So I am getting into woodworking as a hobby. I currently have a single brick garage where I am doing things. (Hoping to insulate this at some point..)
Power tool wise I do not have alot. Currently I own a sliding mitre saw and some hand power tools such as a electric hand planer, circular saw, orbital sander, sheet sander, jigsaw, drills etc
I am really looking at getting a jointer/planer very soon as after a recent project trying to get some 2m lengths of timber square for a door frame... ugh what a nightmare. I just wish i had a jointer/planer and it would have been done in minutes ! Also looking at table saw, but cost wise this might not be for a while yet!

So as it is right now, my mitre saw is just a pain with dust, and reading up its same for every one of them. So I am probably going to make an enclouser type thing to go behind the saw with dust extraction fitted in there. With this in mind, what would you say would be a good route for dust extraction? Budget wise, I am not made of money, but I am willing to pay a few hundred if its the right setup for me. I am also wanting to be "future proofing" with the dust extraction as I am looking at jointer/planer and table saw soon.

Hope someone can help. Thanks!

 

[Adam9453]

The crucial thing about dust extraction is understanding what actually makes a difference and what doesn't. there are many people trying to take your money and selling their "wonderful" machines.
As I have just finished upgrading my dust extraction, this is a timely topic (see my "It's ALIVE" topic for further info on my setup).

For hand held power tools you want a decent vacuum cleaner (LVHP - low volume, high pressure), sometimes known as a shop vac. This will make those hand held tools much cleaner to use and actually perform better. Dust clogging in tools is bad for them and for their performance. A nice option, not essential but nice, is to have a "power take off" on your vacuum cleaner. This is simply a plug socket on the front of the vacuum cleaner that you plug your hand held mains powered tool into. There will be an option on the switch of the vacuum that means it automatically turns on when the tool is turned off, pretty nifty eh. Now you may think this is really expensive, well its not and don't waste money on an expensive hoover. I have been using one from LIDL (yes I said LIDL) for nearly two years now and i've abused it, but it still keeps sucking and has the desirable power take off. Keep a look out at LIDL for their tool offers, you really can get some brilliant bargains. This forum often advocates many of their tools for good reason, they're cheap and good enough typically.

Now about your machines (the big beasty ones that really make some dust and chippings!!), you want the most powerful chip extractor (HVLP - high volume, low pressure) with the finest filter bags or cartridges and largest intake that you can afford. You then want some 150mm ducting (even if your machines have 100mm outlets, use adapters/reducers to make it work with 150mm ducting), then a cheap cyclone separator and a waste bin to collect the waste under the cyclone. This will mean you have a 2 stage extraction system. The first stage the dust/chips hits is the cyclone, this makes the dusty chippy air swirl around and gravity means the heavier dust and chippings fall down out the bottom into your collection bucket. The rest of the air (with fine dust in it) then hits your dust/chip extractor where the filter bags or cartridges will filter out the dust (which collects in the lower collection bags or on the inside of the filter) and then you should have pretty clean air coming out of the filter bags or cartridges depending on how fine they are rated. You can add an optional separate air cleaner which hangs from the ceiling and cleans the really fine particles out of the air too but this often isn't necessary if you have good ventilation.

Thats extraction in a rather long nutshell.

Lastly, wear a good dust mask with decent filters and keep your lungs safe. you only have one pair.

 

[MattRoberts]

I think Adam covered it very well. Regarding the big (HVLP) extractor, I'd suggest ignoring anything under 2HP (1.5 KW). I made the mistake of getting a 1HP, and it can't cope with more than 1 machine. If you're going to create a dust shroud for your mitre saw, getting a jointer and also thinking of a table saw in the future, you want something that will cope.

 

[Mattatooi]

Thanks for response. I think I am going to hold off in getting a large HVLP dust extraction untill I get the planer. I want to get a "shop vac" essentially. I know you mention about the Lidl one, but I cannot seem to find this at the moment. I am also in N.I so I am not sure we get all the power tools. So can anyone recommend another brand / model? I am also thinking of fitting a cyclone system into it.

Cheers

 

[Mattatooi]

Having a look at this by Nilfish - http://www.screwfix.com/p/nilfisk-aero- ... _container

Any good? I cant seem to find any info on how well these vacs filter down to in regards to dust microns. Anyone know?

 

[slemishwoodcrafts]

http://www.screwfix.com/p/record-power- ... 230v/37948

These are really good. I have the RSDE1 which I got a few years ago for this price, don't know why they have increased it. I have it coupled with a small cyclone and it works a treat

 

[MattRoberts]

I have the 1400 watt titan vac from Screwfix - excellent when hooked up to a cyclone

 

[Jacob]

Whatever system you have some dust floats free and will settle somewhere, tops of cupboards, on stacks of timber etc. So it's also a good idea to have a blower - usually an old vacuum cleaner which can blow as well as suck. Use this like an electric feather duster for getting dust from surfaces, nooks and crannies and all the places that a vac cleaner can't reach. Your HVLP will take this away whist it's free floating, or you can sweep it off the floor when it settles again, or leave doors and windows open and it blows away.
If you don't do this you find drifts of fine dust on anything thats been undisturbed for long enough and you get it all over your self if you start moving things.

 

[PAC1]

Whatever system you have some dust floats free and will settle somewhere, tops of cupboards, on stacks of timber etc. So it's also a good idea to have a blower - usually an old vacuum cleaner which can blow as well as suck. Use this like an electric feather duster for getting dust from surfaces, nooks and crannies and all the places that a vac cleaner can't reach. Your HVLP will take this away whist it's free floating, or you can sweep it off the floor when it settles again, or leave doors and windows open and it blows away.
If you don't do this you find drifts of fine dust on anything thats been undisturbed for long enough and you get it all over your self if you start moving things.

Alternatively you can follow the HSE guidance "Never sweep up or use compressed air lines as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled."

 

[MikeJhn]

Alternativly Numatic make a cyclone fitting for the larger 2400watt vacuums, if I remember correctly they are 356mm in dia.
Mike

 

[Jacob]

Whatever system you have some dust floats free and will settle somewhere, tops of cupboards, on stacks of timber etc. So it's also a good idea to have a blower - usually an old vacuum cleaner which can blow as well as suck. Use this like an electric feather duster for getting dust from surfaces, nooks and crannies and all the places that a vac cleaner can't reach. Your HVLP will take this away whist it's free floating, or you can sweep it off the floor when it settles again, or leave doors and windows open and it blows away.
If you don't do this you find drifts of fine dust on anything thats been undisturbed for long enough and you get it all over your self if you start moving things.

Alternatively you can follow the HSE guidance "Never sweep up or use compressed air lines as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled."

Stupid advice.
You might as well say "never move anything which has been lying around for long , or on the top of a cupboard, or under a work surface, or timber stacked in a corner, or dust sheets, as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled".
"Dusting" is unavoidable. If necessary wear a mask.

 

[Beau]

Having a look at this by Nilfish - http://www.screwfix.com/p/nilfisk-aero- ... _container

Any good? I cant seem to find any info on how well these vacs filter down to in regards to dust microns. Anyone know?

Yep very good. I have it's predecessor and it does what you would expect. Needed some parts recently and that was no problem and well priced.

 

[Beau]

Having a look at this by Nilfish - http://www.screwfix.com/p/nilfisk-aero- ... _container

Any good? I cant seem to find any info on how well these vacs filter down to in regards to dust microns. Anyone know?

Yep very good. I have it's predecessor and it does what you would expect. Needed some parts recently and that was no problem and well priced.

 

[PAC1]

Whatever system you have some dust floats free and will settle somewhere, tops of cupboards, on stacks of timber etc. So it's also a good idea to have a blower - usually an old vacuum cleaner which can blow as well as suck. Use this like an electric feather duster for getting dust from surfaces, nooks and crannies and all the places that a vac cleaner can't reach. Your HVLP will take this away whist it's free floating, or you can sweep it off the floor when it settles again, or leave doors and windows open and it blows away.
If you don't do this you find drifts of fine dust on anything thats been undisturbed for long enough and you get it all over your self if you start moving things.

Alternatively you can follow the HSE guidance "Never sweep up or use compressed air lines as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled."

Stupid advice.
You might as well say "never move anything which has been lying around for long , or on the top of a cupboard, or under a work surface, or timber stacked in a corner, or dust sheets, as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled".
"Dusting" is unavoidable. If necessary wear a mask.

Jacob. No they tell you to use the sucking end of your vacuum not the blowing end. The choice is either remove the dust by vacuuming up the dust that has settled or blow it around so it will be airborne for days, inhale some let the rest settle and then blow it around again! The point is "dusting" is avoidable, vacuuming it up so that it is removed that is unavoidable.

 

[Jacob]

......

Alternatively you can follow the HSE guidance "Never sweep up or use compressed air lines as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled."

Stupid advice.
You might as well say "never move anything which has been lying around for long , or on the top of a cupboard, or under a work surface, or timber stacked in a corner, or dust sheets, as this will disturb the dust and allow it to become inhaled".
"Dusting" is unavoidable. If necessary wear a mask.

Jacob. No they tell you to use the sucking end of your vacuum not the blowing end. The choice is either remove the dust by vacuuming up the dust that has settled or blow it around so it will be airborne for days, inhale some let the rest settle and then blow it around again! The point is "dusting" is avoidable, vacuuming it up so that it is removed that is unavoidable.

Except you can only vacuum off flat clear surfaces. You can't vacuum the dust from the middle of a pile of tools , or timber etc or the crevices of a machine. But you can reach them by blowing with a nozzle on a hose. Mask if necessary and/or leave HVLP extractor on, doors windows open etc.
There isn't another way, short of moving a lot of dusty objects/piles and spreading the dust in the process.

PS I should say - the blow job is the last resort - just for the stuff that other systems haven't picked up. If you don't do it every now and then eventually everything has a layer of dust attached, even the walls, and everything you touch raises more.
Ditto sweeping up - brooms haven't gone out of fashion yet!

 

[Mattatooi]

Thanks everyone for suggestions. Well I am considering the Titan 1400W one - http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb430v ... 240v/70472 - I am confident t he Nilfisk one I linked earlier will be good, but I am n ot sure I want to invest that much money into it, when this one at half the price will do what i need. Sure the Nilfisk has a nice quiet motor in it, but reality is, I will be using the vaccuum when I am using loud Power tools and will have hearing protection on anyway!

However one thing I wanted to check was the socket rating. I have the Metabo KGS254 Mitre saw which would be good to use with the socket, and reading their website, I am not quite sure what the Wattage is. https://www.metabo.com/com/en/tools/saw ... e-saw.html

It says;

Rated input power S1 100%:1450 W
Rated input power S6 20%:1800 W

What on earth does this mean? The Titan vac says 1600W Power Take-Off Socket. Will my saw be ok on this or not??

 

[MattRoberts]

I think it will be fine - I've never had a problem with any tool I've plugged into it.

Why would you want to plug in a mitre saw though? If you're looking to hook up the vac to it, don't expect good results. Mitre saws have horrific dust extraction through their dust ports

 

[MikeJhn]

Watts divided by voltage = Amps, so 1600watts divided by 230volt nominal = 6.9amps, hope that helps.

Mike

 

[Mattatooi]

Im well aware of how to calculate amps from watts, what I don't understand is what "Rated input power S1 100%" and "S6 20%" means. There is a cheaper Titan model at £49.99 vs this one at £69.99 - They both appear to have same motors etc in it, just a little larger capactiy and this power tool socket. Worth it?

Yea Matt I know it does, but the saw does have a dust port for extraction which will help a little bit. As I said I will be looking at creating a shroud down the line and using a HVLP system will work better.

 

[MattRoberts]

No worries - just doesn't want you to get your hopes up. Mine has a dust extraction port too. I spent ages making an adaptor to plug my vac in, only to find once I had finished that 90% of the dust completely misses the port anyway