2012 Challenge , Looking ahead , are we up for it ?

[Blister]

Hi everyone

I am amazed how fast this years ( 2011 ) challenge has progressed :shock:

And my thoughts are now looking towards 2012

I have learned a lot during the 2011 challenge organizing and turning so would like to ask you all if we are up for 2012 ?

I have ideas for new projects including a Olympic rings challenge and would ask for any input / suggestions for project from you the entrants as well

Another possibility may be to post entry's anonymously and the turner will only be revealed after the `judging

Maybe we could expand into a 2 tier challenge , Experienced and Hobby turner , that way we can all benefit from the forums experienced turners like Tony , George , Barry , Richard ( Providing they want to take part :mrgreen: )

Just general things wizing around in the empty space between my ears

So what do you all think ?

Allen

 

[nev]

i'm game!
(and so is my wife! :shock: )

Maybe we could expand into a 2 tier challenge , Experienced and Hobby turner , that way we can all benefit from the forums experienced turners like Tony , George , Barry , Richard ( Providing they want to take part :mrgreen: ) .

could be opening lots of canned worms there, when does one progress from juniors to seniors? who decides etc

id suggest leaving as is but possibly get the judge of the particular month to state the rules/ what he/she is looking for that month. that way, maybe arty/ practical/ simple/ rustic/ exquisite could be decided beforehand? and even the playing field?

or maybe the winner of month 1, becomes the judge of month 2 and so on?

or we could draw straws....

 

[Wood spoiler]

My comments in no great order

My wood turning expereince is having it's first birthday this week so it has been an exhilerating time with so much learnt in such a short time, but also aware of how much more there is to glean. If the competition continues then I will be in it.

I have really enjoyed taking part in the challenge. I have tried new and different things and have gone off in different directions arising from my experiences. It has helped my personal development and I have found the photo fest a fantastic resource for ideas and provocative thoughts.

I remain disappointed that only 50% of those that entered appear to be submitting. It would be interesting to hear from those that have cooled off why they have.

The frustrations have been to do with the judging as the judges interpretation and base line has not always reflected the actual challenge. My main problem was that if I could not pick "winners" how could I possibly become one and be turning that which a critical eye will select. My possible solution is that perhaps when posting the descriptive and rules of the item it would also be beneficial to get a comment from the judge in advance as to what he will be looking for and the basis of the judging. If you take this month as a case in point. Had George declared what he would have been looking for and also specifically what he would not be looking for the "local difficulties" could have been avoided.

An annonymous posting would be good in theory but sometimes the competition could become a photography competition rather than a woodturning one.

I would welcome a multi tier competition if it encouraged the participation. Seeing Tony's box was an eye opener and getting better quality contributions and interpretations will always be helpful to aspiring woodturners to gain a greater appreciation of our craft/art.

This is my starter for 10, but may have more thoughts to add later.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Im game and don't mind leaving the tier thing as it is. Maybe the winners of 2011 could have there own "turn off" as well as entering the main comp. My only real feelings would be to keep judging away from wood used and that judging factors to be posted with the rules.

 

[T. Walton]

I don’t see any problem in the competition as it is, I am not disputing the judging as the judge’s decision is final, I can’t comment on any of the other past competitions but the competition for June only asked for a box with a well-fitting lid, not a functional nor an ornamental box so in my mind both where eligible and from this I can see the frustration of some of the entrants.

You just need to specify very clearly and in more detail what is to be made

 

[Chrisnw]

I've not participated in this year’s comp so hopefully nobody will mind me putting my view across? I certainly intend to enter next year if it is goes ahead.

I don't think there should be two tiers for the competition. I like the fact that I have to aspire to improve and raise my rankings over the years and think that having all of you turning-gods above is suitable motivation to improve.

I don't doubt the judge’s impartiality but think that posting anonymously is a nice idea. I also like the thought of being able to guess which piece belongs to which competitor.

With regards to photography I think the competition regulations are good to restrict the photography to certain views etc. As I recall there was plenty of discussion about the photography before the completion started and help given throughout so those not up to speed on the photography side weren’t disadvantaged. Within these limitations there is plenty of scope for a competitor to produce varying standards of photos and I think the competition is all the more rich for it.

I agree with the comments about the judge's interpretation of the challenge and think that this should be specified as much as possible at the start of the month to prevent some of the issues that have occurred this last couple of months. Alternatively, each month’s theme could be judged from multiple styles and an overall winner, rather than 1st 2nd 3rd etc, for example Best Functional Design, Best Ornamental Style, Most Original Design, Overall Winner. Of course, this may cause complications in scoring and judging and is far from flawless, however perhaps it will enable more variation within the theme.

As for projects I would like to see 12 unique themes each year instead of repetition albeit with slight changes to the specifications. Perhaps adopting different categories in each challenge as above would mean we wouldn’t have to go down the repetition route.

Think the judge(S) should remain the same throughout the year although perhaps multiple judges could be used?

My final point is that possibly the monthly challenge, as well intentioned as it is, maybe slightly detrimental to the forum and generating discussion, because individuals don’t post their questions about a particular project until the month is over rather than when they will benefit most from the feedback – at the time they are working on a theme. I think we should encourage forum members to post their attempts, (of course not their actual competition piece) throughout the month to enable discussion and allow others to learn from their mistakes??? I might add that I cannot quantify this statement - perhaps more discussion and interest has been generated a result of the monthly challenge compared to previous years, but what I mean is that perhaps even more discussion could be generated if folks were ecouraged to talk more about the topic each month?

Oh yeah. Well done and thanks to all you competitors judges etc who have entered and provided me so much inspiration so far this year.

 

[Melinda_dd]

Mr Blister Sir, If it is going to take place next year ....please.... I would love to take part ... please.

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

I'd be up for it.

At the risk of releasing the cat among the pigeons, I actually think the tiers might work as long as people can choose their own tier. All depends on numbers though. Imho people that are consistently in the top five should consider applying for the higher tier.

Just a thought.

Ryan

 

[Silverbirch]

I`ve enjoyed taking part immensely this year so far and I`d certainly look forward to doing so again next year. I`ve tried things I`ve never tried before and, not belonging to a turning club, the monthly challenges have done just that for me - challenged me to produce my best work and try new things.
The monthly challenges (especially this onE ) have stimulated some lively debate, which has to be a good thing.
I`m not sure about the idea of tiered entries - on present showing, I don`t think there are enough participants to make this viable.
A couple of suggestions for 2012 ?
1. Have one month where the winners are chosen by the votes of forum members.
2. Ask members to suggest themes for the challenges. Blister could pick those he felt suitable and set the criteria for judging, as this year.

Ian

 

[jumps]

I would combine Ian's suggestions such that one month is both an Open category, submitted anonymously and judged by poll (or similar).

Other than that I like the differentiation between simple/decorated (now that I think I can understand it) but share the view that the key judging criteria are laid out with a little more clarity. This shouldn't be such as to significantly reduce the diversity of the entries - just a little more than recently

Any perceived need for tiers reflects a failing in the challenges; everyone should feel welcome but entry shouldn't be seen as a core method to gain feedback (or prizes!)

 

[tekno.mage]

I think a 2012 Challenge is a good idea. Although I've only entered one month this year, I've really enjoyed watching all the competitions and seeing everyone's work and their different styles and ideas.

I'm not so sure that a tiered competition is a good idea, though, as apart from the difficulty in defining the different tiers and getting agreement as to who should be in which one, it risks splitting the entries into potentially very small numbers within a tier.

I like the idea of an "open" month with anonymous entries and voting for the winner(s). I also like the idea of having different competitions for "plain" and "decorated" items as not everyone has the facilities or desire to make decorated/coloured/carved etc pieces.

To clear up any future mis-understandings, I think it should be made clear what key features of an item are required and these should be stated in the rules for that month.

For something functional, like the eggcups, this is quite easy and could be something like: "Four identical eggcups. Judging will be based on the quality of the turning and finish, the similarity of the four egg cups, their ability to satisfactorily hold an egg, and their suitability for use as tableware/kitchenware - they should be easy to clean, but do not have to be dishwasher safe, or survive immersion in hot washing up water!"

For other categories it might be a bit harder to pre-empt possible mis-understandings, but the key features do need to be defined at the start so both entrants and judges know what they are. Does a vase, for instance, have to be able to hold water? Does a goblet have to be finished in such a way it can be used to drink from? Should a box be stable and unlikely to be knocked over (and does that affect spherical or acorn shaped boxes :lol Can a salad bowl have a natural edge, or would this make it too difficult to clean? Should the choice of wood be considered by the judge if the item is a toy or eating ware? (Laburnum rattles are probably a very bad idea!)

 

[duncanh]

In a photography forum that I once participated in there was a different type of competition...

Comeone chose the starting subject and everyone then had a month to create something that fitted that brief.
At the end of the month everyone submitted one photo.
The person who chose the subject picked their favourite and the winner went on to choose the subject for the next month, starting the process again.


Maybe we could adopt something similar...
Person sets the first challenge being as prescriptive as they wish (eg. specifying subject, size, wood etc if so desired, in addition to which photos should be submitted).
At the end of the month everyone submits photos.
Subject setter picks winner stating why chosen.
Winner starts process again.

Submissions could be anonymous or named

 

[paul-c]

hi blister and all challenge entrants
i would love to have had the time to enter the challenge this year but unfortunately i haven't ,hope i will in 2012 , but i must say how much i have enjoyed watching the challenge on the forum.seeing all the entries and reading the results with the judges comments.
thanks to all involved especially blister and the judges. =D>
cheers
paul-c

 

[gus3049]

On the whole I like it the way it is. As may be understood, there may have been the odd thing that touched a nerve but hopefully that is easily solved. It seems to have worked pretty well so far.

Human nature being what it is, I feel that letting the entrants get involved in judging or scoring offers its own dangers. Whilst I realise that all wood turners are amongst the most straightforward, trustworthy and scrupulously honest people on earth, I spy a small opening for some tactical voting toward the end of the year. This assumes that there is still points scoring and a plaque up for grabs. I like this idea as, in spite of the unlikelihood, striving for that one occasion where more than one point is gained is a definite spur to trying that bit harder.

I think its a good idea to compile a list of suggestions for catagories and then have Allen pick his top 12. I don't see any point in complicating things with any tier system. Maybe a seperate challenge for the pros but as already pointed out, where is the dividing line going to be placed.

Keep it simple I reckon.

 

[Jonzjob]

I am also in favor of keeping it simple with no tier system. For a start who would decide who was in what tier? I have been turning for a fair while now, but I am nowhere near as good as a pro, but better than a newbe (perhaps, well maybe sometimes?)

I have said on another thread that I think that the judges should abide by the criteria laid down for the particular comp just as we have to. This is very important and will stop people just giving up after they have put a lot of work and thought into their entry and then finding that the proverbial goal post have been moved.

Please don't give up on it Allen, it's a great comp and I am sure the winners are as proud of their plaques as I am of mine!!!

 

[miles_hot]

I'm up for it. Lessons will no doubt be learnt from this year as is proper

 

[myturn]

Are we up for it?

Are you up for it? :mrgreen:

Just get a pedant to read through the rules and criteria, and someone with no imagination to do the judging as per the stated criteria and it will all go wonderfully.

I do think the judging should be done without knowing the identity of the entrant.

And it might be interesting to have a non-turner's vote alongside the main judge's vote to see how someone unaware of the technical aspects of turning might view the work in its own right.

 

[Daven]

Just get a pedant to read through the rules and criteria, and someone with no imagination to do the judging as per the stated criteria and it will all go wonderfully.

Enough already - even if in jest let it drop please or do it in PM's

 

[myturn]

Enough already - even if in jest let it drop please or do it in PM's

So you're the banter police now are you? :roll:

 

[Daven]

Yes