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Eric Roy

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Does anyone else cheap out and use bog standard builders PVA at £10 for 5L? I've been using it for the past 2 years and never had any problems with joint strength.
Yes, on big areas it works well using a 4” emulsion tray and paint roller. Like you, I was pleasantly surprised by the ratio of joint strength / cost. 😀
 

recipio

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The American magazine 'Fine Woodworking' tested glues a few years ago and found PVA to be marginally stronger than polyurethane. I stick to a German glue called Kleiberit which is as cheap as chips. I might defer to Titebond 3 if I am using a very dark wood as the glue line is like chocolate. ! The Titebond range is totally overpriced IMO.
 

R1chard

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I don't like Gorilla glue as it seems to suggest a good bond and then fails under test. When inspecting the joint the foam has covered the surfaces and set hard without bonding. Perhaps I didn't wet the surface well enough!
Does anyone rate Cascamite?
 

marcros

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I don't like Gorilla glue as it seems to suggest a good bond and then fails under test. When inspecting the joint the foam has covered the surfaces and set hard without bonding. Perhaps I didn't wet the surface well enough!
Does anyone rate Cascamite?
Pu is gap filling, in that the foam fills the gap. The foam isn't structural though, you still need a good tight joint.
 

Oraclebhoy

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I bought some gorilla glue mainly for the bottle as it was a good size and had a nice nozzle. Not used it as yet, only previously used evo-stik wood glue (tiny bottles) as sticking dowels into holes was the extent of my experience.
I hope that changes when it starts getting warmer and I can spend more time in the garage.
 

Peri

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Look in vape shops for their mixing bottles. Lots of sizes and styles in the 10ml to 200ml range, made from plastic the glue wont adhere to, and generally all come with very fine nozells...and dirt cheap to :)

I use them for storing glue, french polish, IPA, meths etc etc

11-01-21 15-15-36.jpg
 
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GrahamIreland

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Hmm, thats strange. I didn't expect others to find the pu glue to be suspect. I found it to be incredibly sticky. I stuck insulation boards to steel panels really easily with a polyurethane glue (can't remember the name) but stuck like hell. destroyed my fingers also.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I don't like Gorilla glue as it seems to suggest a good bond and then fails under test. When inspecting the joint the foam has covered the surfaces and set hard without bonding. Perhaps I didn't wet the surface well enough!
Does anyone rate Cascamite?
Do a search - there's loads on it.
 

Jameshow

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A well known sailing and power boat designer John welsford did a test of the common glues and apart from waterproofing PVA which was the control glue came pretty good.

Cheers James
 

Cabinetman

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I’m sorry James I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say, are you saying that everything apart from PVA was good? Mind you if it’s for boats I wouldn’t use weatherproof PVA to start with, is that what you meant by waterproofing PVA or is that a technique? Ian
 

marcros

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Hmm, thats strange. I didn't expect others to find the pu glue to be suspect. I found it to be incredibly sticky. I stuck insulation boards to steel panels really easily with a polyurethane glue (can't remember the name) but stuck like hell. destroyed my fingers also.
Ah black hand. I had forgotten that side effect of pu!
 

undergroundhunter

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I use gorilla pva its convenient and I can get it locally, I hate the bottles though so I decant it into Ebay sauce bottles, 50p each. I recently used titebond hide glue on a wooden plane repair and like it a lot but it's expensive. I use pu for outdoor stuff or where I need a fast setting time, as has been said the joint still needs to be tight the foam is not very strong at all. This is the product I like, easy to use and because its in a cartridge it's quite clean and easy to control.

In the past I've used everbuild d4, titebond 1,2 and 3, osmo pva, everbiild 502 and overstock? in the blue and green bottles. They all have slightly different properties like glue line colour, cute time etc. But as far as adhesion goes they all work for this reason I decided just to use whatever I can get locally unless I needed a darker glue line or I was instrument building.

Matt
 

johnnyb

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I find some pva is way to thick(like soudal))I really like gorilla pva tbh its somewhere in the middle of the properties. titebond 1 and 2 are similar. titebond 3 is great but drippy and its hard to loose it on a clear finish.for price though the soudal is hard to beat it was about £17 I think for a big tub (maybe 5 l) very thick though adding a bit of water in summer may help!
 

Sgian Dubh

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I don't like Gorilla glue as it seems to suggest a good bond and then fails under test. When inspecting the joint the foam has covered the surfaces and set hard without bonding. Perhaps I didn't wet the surface well enough!
Does anyone rate Cascamite?
Polyurethane adhesives, whatever the brand, are generally very good adhesives. Used correctly they form a very strong bond. People who report they can see the glue line after using this adhesive type, or any other type for that matter, and note that the adhesive has failed are not actually apportioning fault to the right cause. It's not the adhesive that's at fault in that situation, it's the poor joinery that is the cause of failure. I'm not sure that what you describe is a sign of this type of fault, i.e., gappy joinery, but you also describe foam covering the surfaces, presumably this being the surfaces that are really should be intimately touching each other rather than loose.

Most adhesives can't structurally bridge a gap with the exceptions being epoxy resin formulations (often incorporating fillers) and to some extent urea formaldehyde adhesive types, e.g., Cascamite, which you asked about. Interestingly, many have noted they've experienced problems with the Polyvine branded Cascamite in recent months and years, seemingly largely centred around the stuff not mixing properly in the first place leading to imperfect curing. I too have had some problems within the last three or four years with this brand of urea formaldehyde adhesive, but I've had no need to use this type of adhesive recently, so I can't comment on other brands of this glue type .

Turning to talking in generalities, there isn't a single glue type that satisfies all the gluing needs of a woodworker, but one type that readily satisfies most needs is probably one of the PVA or aliphatic resins, but even this type varies in working properties. Some grab very quickly (Everbuild D4, for example) giving little time to align parts and clamp up effectively, and others give longer to get clamps on and to make sure everything is lined up properly. Some PVA formulations are water resistant or said to to be 'water proof', and others are not, so choosing which one to use depends on the end use of the project. In general, the more 'water proof' the PVA type, the quicker it grabs, therefore less time to assemble and clamp up your project. PVA also suffers from creep, and if this is undesirable in a glue up, e.g., in the case of tightly bent laminations, then another adhesive might be better, e.g., urea formaldehyde or epoxy resin, (both of which have to be mixed which takes time) and in the case of the latter adhesive there are versions that can give you up to an hour after its application to get everything aligned and clamped up properly - often useful in complex assembles such as bent laminations. If the wood is wet, i.e., by definition wood that has 20% MC or more, then a good option might be a polyurethane adhesive (some grab quickly, and others slower) because this formulation will bond wet wood as well as bonding odd materials together, whereas none of the other common types are formulated to work with wet wood, so will fail.

Others have mentioned hide glue, fish glue, and so on, and all adhesives have their uses, strengths and weaknesses, and choosing an adhesive requires matching its properties to the task in hand and end use of the project. But, as I said earlier, a good general purpose adhesive that covers many needs and uses will, for most woodworkers, be one of the PVA or aliphatic resins. I think it's probably true to say that 99.5% of woodworkers always have some of this stuff to hand ready to use at a moment's notice. Slainte.
 

pcb1962

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Ive stuck with titebond. I started buying titebond 1 and 3, but now just buy and use 3 for everything.

£16 for a litre
I use Titebond 3 for everything, unless I've got lots of dominos to do at once and need a longer open time, then I use whatever white pva that's lying around.
 

kinverkid

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Does anyone else cheap out and use bog standard builders PVA at £10 for 5L? I've been using it for the past 2 years and never had any problems with joint strength.
Around thirty years ago I used it to double thickness sheets of MDF to build a large drawer cabinet in my workshop. It's still there. I would do it again too if ever I needed to adhere such large pieces to be used in a similar environment. As an every day PVA glue though I'll use Ever Build 502. If I want waterproof I usually use Urea-formaldehyde. I have even used GRP resin as a waterproof adhesive. I didn't buy it, the roofer working on next doors extension gave me what was left over. I have two pieces of manky pallet wood that I glued together with it and it's been on the roof of the wood store since around November 2019. So this is it's second winter outside and it's still going strong.
 

R1chard

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Polyurethane adhesives, whatever the brand, are generally very good adhesives. Used correctly they form a very strong bond. People who report they can see the glue line after using this adhesive type, or any other type for that matter, and note that the adhesive has failed are not actually apportioning fault to the right cause. It's not the adhesive that's at fault in that situation, it's the poor joinery that is the cause of failure. I'm not sure that what you describe is a sign of this type of fault, i.e., gappy joinery, but you also describe foam covering the surfaces, presumably this being the surfaces that are really should be intimately touching each other rather than loose.

Most adhesives can't structurally bridge a gap with the exceptions being epoxy resin formulations (often incorporating fillers) and to some extent urea formaldehyde adhesive types, e.g., Cascamite, which you asked about. Interestingly, many have noted they've experienced problems with the Polyvine branded Cascamite in recent months and years, seemingly largely centred around the stuff not mixing properly in the first place leading to imperfect curing. I too have had some problems within the last three or four years with this brand of urea formaldehyde adhesive, but I've had no need to use this type of adhesive recently, so I can't comment on other brands of this glue type .

Turning to talking in generalities, there isn't a single glue type that satisfies all the gluing needs of a woodworker, but one type that readily satisfies most needs is probably one of the PVA or aliphatic resins, but even this type varies in working properties. Some grab very quickly (Everbuild D4, for example) giving little time to align parts and clamp up effectively, and others give longer to get clamps on and to make sure everything is lined up properly. Some PVA formulations are water resistant or said to to be 'water proof', and others are not, so choosing which one to use depends on the end use of the project. In general, the more 'water proof' the PVA type, the quicker it grabs, therefore less time to assemble and clamp up your project. PVA also suffers from creep, and if this is undesirable in a glue up, e.g., in the case of tightly bent laminations, then another adhesive might be better, e.g., urea formaldehyde or epoxy resin, (both of which have to be mixed which takes time) and in the case of the latter adhesive there are versions that can give you up to an hour after its application to get everything aligned and clamped up properly - often useful in complex assembles such as bent laminations. If the wood is wet, i.e., by definition wood that has 20% MC or more, then a good option might be a polyurethane adhesive (some grab quickly, and others slower) because this formulation will bond wet wood as well as bonding odd materials together, whereas none of the other common types are formulated to work with wet wood, so will fail.

Others have mentioned hide glue, fish glue, and so on, and all adhesives have their uses, strengths and weaknesses, and choosing an adhesive requires matching its properties to the task in hand and end use of the project. But, as I said earlier, a good general purpose adhesive that covers many needs and uses will, for most woodworkers, be one of the PVA or aliphatic resins. I think it's probably true to say that 99.5% of woodworkers always have some of this stuff to hand ready to use at a moment's notice. Slainte.
Very informative.. appreciate the detail and effort.
 

D_W

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most here use titebond. Even the musical instrument manufacturers did until the rise of the electric guitar forums told everyone that they could hear mushy tone with titebond joints.
 
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