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Anonymous

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OK

When I posted my blatant gloat a while back some people (Alf, Chris in particular) suggested (quite fairly) that there were some glaring omissions but did not elucidate on what or why.

My question is this, what use the other planes? Planes such as these #1, #2, #3, #6, #7 etc.

I mean, I joint edges with my #5 and flatten boards with my #4 ½ and bevel edges + plane end grain with the low angle block.

Clearly, the #45 etc. are the forerunners to routers and the #7 is for jointing but what about the others?

Cheers

Tony
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A

Anonymous

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simple start to the answer, which will undoubtedly be added to:

Jointing edges with a #5 - well, if the edge is short enough, fair dos, but for longer edges, the #5 doesn't have a long enough sole, so a #7 or (if you're man enough!) a #8 is called for.
Flattening boards with #4 1/2 - well, really you should be using the 5 for the bulk removal, only moving to the smoother for the last couple of swipes. the Jack set fairly course will flatten much quicker than a smoother set to smooth, and then the smoother will sort out (most) of any tearout you may have got yourself.

#1 and #2 are small smoothers, probably too small for adult hands. Blood & Gore has more info on these.
#3 is also small smoother, but getting into region where small adult hands can use them; useful for small areas where even a #4 is too big. Also good for the kids to use.
#6. What is the point of a #6? I don't know! I, like may others, have a #6, bought in the belief that with a couple of irons ground and honed to different degrees of curve, the single plane can do the job of a #5 AND a #7, thereby saving me money. True to a certain extent, but largely a fallacy...get the 5 and the 7 instead.
 

Alf

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Lawks, we're getting some big, philisophical questions today...

The 'orrible truth is you don't need one of every model number. This can leave some people :roll: embarassingly scraping the barrel to find excuses for having more than one of every model number. DAMH... Each group of type of plane tends to have a choice of sizes, and which you need will come down to the size of stuff you work on/personal preference/weight/comfort etc. Ian Kirby, for instance, claims a #7 (IIRC) is the only plane you need, while DC votes for a #5 1/2 over a #5 jack. Why? Personal preference. Trouble is, the only way to know which you prefer is to try them all... :wink: Unless you want to be sensible about it :( in which case you'll know what else you need when you find you're missing it. Unless you don't know what you're missing... :roll: Yeah, thought so. The first way is much better. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. I did a summing up of the bench planes 1-8 on my old website. Nobody kept a copy I suppose? I didn't. :(
 
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Anonymous

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Also depends what you're doing, I think.

For eg - most of us have a planer/thicknesser, or individuals, right? (most of us - I don't, and I know some others don't either). So, what's the point of a jointer (#7 or #8 plane, not tailed jointer!)? Use the power machine to flatten and square. Then, all you need is a smoother to get rid of the machine marks. Now DC, as Alf has said, prefers the 5 & arf over the 5, BUT, he's using the 5 & arf as an Uber-Smoother, not really as a Jack - he's taking <0.1mm shavings with the thing - smoother numbers, not jack numbers, n'est pas?

I seem to recall someone (Mark Finney maybe?) stating that a 4 1/2 is the only bench plane needed in the modern workshop. So, another vote for the smoother, and the choice of WHICH smoother is, as Alf states, personal preference. Unless you're a c*l*e*t*r :twisted:

The block planes, shoulder planes, router planes etc etc all have a place, but can all be surplanted to an extent with power tools (the tailed router, in particular), but not totally replaced, I think. In one of the other threads, there's a comment about the hand-tools being slower than power tools. Really? What's quicker for putting a chamfer on the corner of a table leg? A Router - get it out the box, install the bit, set the depth, attach extractor etc etc. Or, reach for the block plane...swish swish, job done. And a regular broom will sort out your shavings.
 

Alf

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Espedair Street":quwb75oh said:
In one of the other threads, there's a comment about the hand-tools being slower than power tools. Really? What's quicker for putting a chamfer on the corner of a table leg? A Router - get it out the box, install the bit, set the depth, attach extractor etc etc. Or, reach for the block plane...swish swish, job done. And a regular broom will sort out your shavings.
Well said that man. It also tends to look better, I reckon.

Cheers, Alf
 

Chris Knight

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Alf":gm3ynfo5 said:
The 'orrible truth is you don't need one of every model number(
What utter rubbish!! OF COURSE one needs one of every model number - why else do they make them? Alf has plainly lost her mind - all those reviews have done something to her brain.

When you have every model number - THEN you can talk about the differences or lack of them.

When you have every model number, then you are primed and ready to understand why you need an ifill or two - A5, panel planes etc.

When you have every model number and all the Norris infills, you will understand why Spiers - sans adjuster - are so popular

When you have every model number and the Norrises and the Spiers you begin to realise that the old timers knew a thing or two and whereas Roman remains have thrown up a few bronze planes, more recent - and therefore presumably more enlightened folk have discovered that wooden planes are lighter than metal ones and slide nicely over the work, so a complete line of transitionals is needed then ECE's because they must be better?

By now, having scratched the surface of the Western tradition you realise that the Japanes planes are rather special - that famous 30 foot six inch wide shaving got your attention? - so you need a bunch of them. So where DO Krenov and Steve Knight get off? I have no idea but better stock up on a couple, just in case.

By now, having realised that old anchor chains may not an iron make, you turn your attention to A2 cryo and the like but hey - we covered that back in LN days - didn't we? No, but in any case we clean forgot about Holtey's S53 blades.

You get the picture? At the last count one needs a minimum of 783 planes to hold a sensible conversation.
 

Alf

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Tsk. I think you'll find my mind remains found. Viz:
Alf":3k26c0ip said:
Trouble is, the only way to know which you prefer is to try them all... :wink: Unless you want to be sensible about it :( in which case you'll know what else you need when you find you're missing it. Unless you don't know what you're missing... :roll: Yeah, thought so. The first way is much better. :lol:
Worry not, Chris, everything's under control. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Midnight

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So, what's the point of a jointer (#7 or #8 plane, not tailed jointer!)?
A valid point... mind if I take a stab at it..??

Back when I first started, I wanted a shop like Norm's..MASSES of room jam packed with every state of the art wood munchin, chip crunchin dust belchin piece of technogismatry there was.... and started buying along that lines...
Unfortunately reality stepped in... where's the cash coming from, and shop?? what shop?? The local kids around here would think nothing of torching anything remotely like a shed just for the hell of it...

Undeterred, I started buying as big as I could afford.... realising that a good but small benchtop jointer made a perfect banana from 8' stock was a hellova wake up call. What was I doing WRONG??? Simple answer was not enough machine dude... bed's not big enough..
ummmm..... the bed's as big as my tiny shop will allow....

What does my #7 do that a jointer can't.????
For a start....I can work as big / wide a board as I can physically manhandle onto the bench; biggest to date was 10ft long and 3ft wide... show me the machine that can do that WITHOUT going through my shop floor...

Additionally... there's the respect thing.. This one sneaked up on me....

First piece I made with the power tools was a bookcase; ply with sapeli edging and mouldings. Comments ran along the lines of..... made a nice job of that...

First piece I made where I'd prepped all the stock by hand was a storage table.. great brute of a thing... comments were slackjawed silence when informed I'd worked the boards from the rough......with nothing but hand tools (at the time my back was playing up, ruling out use of my thicknesser)...
I've no idea how to hang a meaning onto slack jawed... but I know it means something..... something that machine tools just don't got.....
 

Philly

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As to why are there so many planes, do I need them all? Why do people climb Mount Everest?
"Because it's there......."
Until you've got the low-angle, ductile bronze, high angle, Rosewood, laminated, Japanese, British, American, home-made, jointing-smoothing-jack-block-thumb'ing lot there will always be people on this forum asking questions and prompting you to consider buying another one.
No wonder they call it the slope.....
Philosophically,
Philly :D
 

Jake

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P.S. I did a summing up of the bench planes 1-8 on my old website. Nobody kept a copy I suppose? I didn't.
Alf,

Have you tried http://www.archive.org/ ?

Might have kept a copy for you whether you wanted it to or not...

Need the URL to try it, so I'll leave it to you..

Jake
 

Bean

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Could the reason for buying so many planes that you edge near to the :twisted: C*l*e*t*r :twisted: status be that they are so dam pretty and nice to hold :wink:

Bean
 
A

Anonymous

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Alf":2j8wqptt said:
Lawks, we're getting some big, philisophical questions today...

The 'orrible truth is you don't need one of every model number.
So true, ALF. Everyone needs multiples of each! :lol:
Actually I don't have a #1 or #2 and I got rid of my only #5 1/4. I have at least 2 of every other size.
 
A

Anonymous

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Thanks for the responses, however, I am no clearer as to what/why I should buy more despite people seeing 'holes' in my collection :D
Apart form wasting some money that is :wink:

Seems that the #1,#2,#3 are really too small, #4 is same as my #4 1/2, #6 is in no mans land and #7/8 are not required as I have a P/T

Don't know what a spiers is or an A5 but guess they cost too much anyway.

Esp: I wasn't clear in my post, I do use the #5 before the 4 1/2 when flattening boards, just as you say.

So my #4 1/2 and #5 + blocks will do - unless I become a c*l*e*t*r.

Just need to order that veritas spoke shave after Alf's fine review - to replace my Stanley (£4)

Cheers

Tony
 

Alf

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Tsk, tsk. Who said you don't need a #7? A #7 is one of those planes you think you don't need, until you have one. There is nothing as satisfying and jointing two boards together by hand and ending up with a finished product where you can't see the join. No, not even paring dowels. :wink: Not least because putting a spring in the joint is so much easier with a plane. Let me guess; what's that then? :wink: A slight, everso slight, convexity in the length of the edges, which draws the joint tighter together at the ends where most drying and shrinkage will occur. Also means you can cut down on the number of clamps during glue-up. Until you've used a #7 you haven't truly tasted the full joy of what hand planes can do. Trust me, I'm a galoot. :D

Cheers, Alf
 
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Anonymous

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Alf":2v6yezda said:
Not least because putting a spring in the joint is so much easier with a plane. Let me guess; what's that then? :wink:
Cheers, Alf
Alf, Alf, Alf, Alf. Of course I know about the spring :?

I may not be up to speed on the multitude on hand planes available but I do have DC's books :wink:

Oh, and I do trust you on planes - remember, I bought my LN 4 1/2 partly on your recommendation. :shock: :)

Cheers

Tony
 

Alf

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Tony":14jdda04 said:
Alf":14jdda04 said:
Not least because putting a spring in the joint is so much easier with a plane. Let me guess; what's that then? :wink:
Cheers, Alf
Alf, Alf, Alf, Alf. Of course I know about the spring :?
And there was I taking you for more of a bottled water kinda guy. :wink:

Tony":14jdda04 said:
I may not be up to speed on the multitude on hand planes available but I do have DC's books :wink:
Ahh, but have you read them... :p :lol:

Tony":14jdda04 said:
Oh, and I do trust you on planes - remember, I bought my LN 4 1/2 partly on your recommendation. :shock: :)
You did? (The boy's a fool...) Humph, and still no commission cheque from Maine... :roll:

Cheers, Alf
 
A

Anonymous

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The fact is, Tony, all any of us can tell you is how we like to do things. You will develop your own style and preferences.
When I first started down the hand tool path I read an article where the author (Alan Peters?) stated the only plane a person needed was a #7. That sounded good so I got a #7 and I did everything with it, flattening, edge jointing, smoothing, & shooting end grain. The downside is that I had to keep adjusting depth of cut and mouth opening for different tasks and I had to sharpen the blade straight across.
I learned that to be efficient, I need to dedicate planes to specific tasks and projects. For instance, I keep 2 #5's and 2 #5 1/2's under my bench. These have varying amounts of camber in the blades so I have a plane ready to take off a specific amount of wood. Always work from the coarsest cut you can to progressively finer cuts to reduce the amount of plane strokes dramatically.
Different woods will also help dictate plane size. I don't use #3's often but I had some boards with narrow areas of grain reversal that were very tearout prone. The small size of the #3 was helpful in navigating around these. On very hard woods, there is a big difference in the amount of effort needed between a #4 and a #4 1/2.
Personal preference is really all that matters. While it seems the #6 is not popular, several woodworkers I admire greatly consider it their favorite plane.
Just keep working, develop your style and methods, and the tools will fall into place.
 
A

Anonymous

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Tony":fszkicnu said:
Alf":fszkicnu said:
Not least because putting a spring in the joint is so much easier with a plane. Let me guess; what's that then? :wink:
Cheers, Alf
Alf, Alf, Alf, Alf. Of course I know about the spring :?
And there was I taking you for more of a bottled water kinda guy. :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Alf":fszkicnu said:
Tony":fszkicnu said:
I may not be up to speed on the multitude on hand planes available but I do have DC's books :wink:
Ahh, but have you read them... :p :lol:
Read them???? No one said anything about reading them!!

Cheers

Tony

PS it just took me 10 minutes to get those quotes to work properly :oops:
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