Which course, Paul Sellers or Peter Sefton

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Don't want to add any further complication, but you could look at Chris tribes courses. I got him to do a custom two day for me, got plenty of value from it, he was present all of he time and on hand to demo techniques and critique results. I even got an 'acceptable' for a cross halv d joint. Only Down side is he makes you tidy the workshop at the end of each day. If you want any moe specific info, pm me a number and I will call you.
 
skeetstar":2ddh8che said:
Don't want to add any further complication, but you could look at Chris tribes courses. I got him to do a custom two day for me, got plenty of value from it, he was present all of he time and on hand to demo techniques and critique results. I even got an 'acceptable' for a cross halv d joint. Only Down side is he makes you tidy the workshop at the end of each day. If you want any moe specific info, pm me a number and I will call you.

I second this. I've done a short course with Chris. He is very attentive as a teacher, literally doing laps of the work benches and is fully open to individual assistance if you ask or if he thinks you might need it, but he's not constantly hanging around your neck either. He is highly skilled and the tools he provides are good quality. There is excellent affordable (but high quality) accommodation nearby (PM me if you want a recommendation).

I would thoroughly recommend Chris to anyone. I was absolutely knackered at the end of every day, it was packed with learning and working on your project. My intention for the evenings was to get down the pub, but I ended up going to bed early! lol

He is most certainly worth a call.
 
lurker":3556gsov said:
Paddy Roxburgh":3556gsov said:
Racers":3556gsov said:
I can't stand Peter Sellers

Pete

Is that Paul Sellers brother? :lol:


He was good in the goon show but went off as he became world famous


Peter is such a good name everybody should be called it :D

Pete
 
Excuse my ignorance but I've never heard of Chris tribe, I'll google him.

Cheers

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
I can't comment on Paul Sellers but I've done 2 of Peter Seftons's courses (veneering & laminating and routing) and they were both excellent. No ego and a good balance between theory and practice. You will learn a lot more than just the course content as any woodworking question you ask will be answered rather than come on another specific course.
If you are local then I suggest you pop in and have a word with Peter (as I did) before signing up and both see the facilities and get the up to date gen on the course.
 
I have been on both courses (a few years ago) and I found them both excellent, but quite different. As mentioned, Peter's was a five day and Paul's was a nine day course.

Peter Sefton has a very approachable and friendly style, mixing between demonstration, practical work and critique/advice. He is a great teacher and obviously knows his stuff. He is also a good businessman, as there are ample opportunities to bolster your tool collection from his handy shop! Fair play Peter.
In terms of achievement, I found that the focus on the basics was just what I expected, sharpening, accuracy, using a range of tools and making different types of joints. Peter's focus on accuracy was very impressive and appealed to the engineer in me. He takes a lot of price in the standards he keeps and instils that in the students he teaches. The course itself is well paced and full of useful details. There is a good balance of classroom, demonstration and practical work. The focus changes through the week from understanding the tools, through sharpening and correct tool use to making different types of joint. The project piece you make is a letter rack, with dovetails and tenons.
At the end of the week I had (fairly) successfully completed my project and was much more comfortable with the basics of hand tool woodworking.

Paul Sellers is a very colourful character. His views are deliberately provocative and sometimes more than mildly offensive. That said, I found him approachable and interesting, even if you sometimes need to 'tune out' some of the bluster. He is very passionate about his craft and frustrated that woodworking is coming to mean light industrial automation in peoples minds. His goal is to try to show how inexpensive and approachable the craft can be. He has furnished most of his classroom with finds from ebay and car boot sales, to back up his beliefs. He does have and use modern, expensive power tools and hand tools, but does not try to push them as the only way to do it, which is quite refreshing.
In terms of the course, there are the usual theory, demonstration, practical elements along with his stories and views on woodworking. He is less hands-on than Peter Sefton, although whenever we went up to him to ask about something we didn't understand, he took the time to answer directly or to use the question as a teaching opportunity for the group (not always a great thing for my mistake...). He does rely on his apprentice Phil to help facilitate the class, but I found this to be a good thing as you had a second opinion on things.
The major difference between the courses was the volume of practical elements. Ignoring the difference in course length, I found the pace to be excellent, by the second day I had probably cut 20 dovetail joints, getting better every time. This rate of activity continues throughout the course. Paul is a believer in repetition as a learning tool and he is right to do so. It works well. We created three different projects over the course, a hinged box (dovetails), a small bookcase (dados, mortice and tenons) and an elegant occasional table (complex mortice and tenons). Each project took about three days to complete and we were left to apply finishes later.

I found both courses extremely valuable and interesting, although they differ tremendously in style. If you want a well paced, detail focused, precision based experience, then Peter Sefton is your go to guy. If you want an interesting, hard working, practical, mini-apprenticeship style experience, then I can recommend Paul Sellers.

Here are links to the courses if anyone wants to see the details:
Peter Sefton Furniture School5-Day Furniture Making for Beginners
Paul Sellers New Legacy School of Woodworking 9-Day Foundation Course

I can honestly say that you won't be sorry with either course, I wasn't.
 
I'm surprised not to see David Charlesworth up on this list ...
If you want to focus on the finest cabinetmaking you can possibly do ...
Then I would suggest he's definitely worth looking up ...
He looks to have some machines too... for cutting veneers anyway ...
I'd have a guess he's some other machines aswell and not against using them,
but looks to be very precise hand tool work you'd be doing ..

He has DVD's too and probably the best person for explaining anything .
He uses the English language with great skill and precision,
and manages to explain things with such precision and clarity that otherwise would be very difficult to demonstrate .
Better than many face to face .
 
I just thought, I had an email recently from Peter Sefton's woodworkers' workshop, on 10th December they are having a hand tool and router day. First demo of the day is Peter demonstrating hand tools. If you can why not go along, chance to see the facilities and have a chat to Peter. I am hoping to relinquish taxi duties for the kids and go myself.

Terry.
 
Great idea Terry, I will try and get there myself, as I need to decide where my hard earned money will be going when I do a course too.

I found the bit on the website about it: http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... and_events

"Hand Tool and Routing Day at Wood Workers Workshop

Saturday 10th Dec 2016 - 10am-2pm

Wood Workers Workshop, are having a Hand Tool and Routing Day Day, so why not visit our workshops here at The Threshing Barn and get a 10% discount on your hand tools.

It’s on Saturday 10th December, 10am-2pm, meet Peter and see professional demonstrations – we believe we have the best in-house routing demonstrations set-up in the UK, see expert demonstrations from quality imported US Brands such as WoodRiver – exclusive to Wood Workers Workshop, Incra, Woodpecker and Easy Wood Tools. There will be loads of tools for sale alongside hand tools sourced from some of the best English tool makers, plus you can get expert advice on buying tools and Peter will be demonstrating Hand Tool techniques.

Tool Day visitors all get the chance to win a £50 voucher against their Wood Workers Workshop purchase, with the prize being drawn on the day."
 
I recently attended Paul's 2 day course in Oxfordshire and must admit I quite enjoyed it. The point about him being hands-off in the workshop I think is valid, but I found I got some really useful tips from Phil, and when I asked Paul about a specific planning technique he was more than happy to help.

Although I'd made some of the joints used in the course, and have got a reasonable freehand sharpening technique, I do feel that I got value; in that it refined and corrected some issues. It also gave me the confidence to attempt sharpening a couple of old saws I have; with reasonable success.

You probably wouldn't leave that course thinking that you were ready to handle a big piece of furniture but it'll certainly give you a foundation in some of the important joints and how to prepare your tools to do good work. I'd apply for the 9 day course in a heartbeat if it were run (and I could get the time to attend).

I can't speak for Peter's courses, but the reference to Chris Tribe is useful; as I'm in the process of a move up north, and I'll be about 30 minutes from him.
 
Wizard9999":1b1l0o4q said:
I just thought, I had an email recently from Peter Sefton's woodworkers' workshop, on 10th December they are having a hand tool and router day. First demo of the day is Peter demonstrating hand tools. If you can why not go along, chance to see the facilities and have a chat to Peter. I am hoping to relinquish taxi duties for the kids and go myself.

Terry.

Terry beat me to it. It really is important that you have a rapport with whoever is teaching you. I've been to Peter Sefton on a couple of his short courses and I have to say that a more, down-to-earth, friendly, helpful bloke I have yet to meet. As well as making fine furniture himself for many years, Peter has also been a lecturer IIRC and so has the skills and experience at imparting his knowledge.
 
Good thread.

A pound invested in training is likely to yield far better dividends than a pound invested in tools or machinery. But that's not what most people want to hear.

Making straightforward rectilinear furniture from solid timber (i.e. all straight lines and 90 degree corners) is well within the capability of almost everyone and can be achieved in even a very modest and basically equipped workshop. But for every hundred people who take up furniture making as a hobby how many progress to making even O-Level standard stuff, say like this?

Shaker side Table.JPG .JPG


I'd guess less than 10%.

But if those same 100 people sunk more money into training and less into stuffing their workshops full of carp Chinese machinery I'd guess it would be well over 50%.

Their money, their time, so absolutely their choice. But I wonder if people truly realise that it's training and knowledge rather than tools and equipment that is the key to progress?
 

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custard":39cydhkg said:
Oops, my table has capsized, maybe I need IT training!
TBH A lot of my woodworking projects end up looking like that anyway :wink:

Your point about the value of training is a good one though; the cost vs benefit can be very useful. In particular with Paul's course, I spotted things I didn't pick up from his various videos. I'm sure that's a common experience with courses, as "being there" means you'll always notice something from a different angle, or just have the ability to pause and ask a question at a particular stage.
 
Mr T":2imuxf86 said:
Estoril-5":2imuxf86 said:
Excuse my ignorance but I've never heard of Chris tribe, I'll google him.

That's strange as you posted on a thread about my courses last month https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/funiture-making-courses-with-chris-tribe-t88883-15.html

Chris
Looked through the thread couldn't find a post on there from me, although my memory isn't what it used to be.

I'm new to all this so trying to do some research before spending some cash.

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