When did the world go mad for Festool?

[Doug B]

Festool design a system, taken on its own some parts are seen as gimmicks, take electric leads that detach from the tool, but when used on site with a power take off extractor & other Festool machines that is when these so called gimmicks come it their own.
To interchange both power lead & extraction hose from one tool to another without having to go back to the extractor every time is a game changer especially when you are swapping between the likes of a track saw, domino, router & sander as I was doing on site recently, it really does save time.
Add to that the ability to use the router on the saw track, a real boon when constructing cabinets on site, not a massive idea but one that Festool have given thought to & so widening the usefulness of their system to the end user.

I don't think their tools are expensive either, compare them to comparable brands, Mafell track saws are more expensive, Mirca sanders are similarly priced, Lamello biscuit jointers are dearer & when Bosch got there act into gear & made a chop saw to try & compete with the Kapex the price wasn't that different & it still wasn't as good as Festool's Kapex.

I don't usually bother with Festool debates anymore, it really is pointless, it's like listening to the old boys down the allotment trying to tell me that their Peaugot, Renault or fiat is equally as good as my VW, well I've driven all of those makes & I won't be changing brand anytime soon.

 

[AndyT]

I think that Festool have successfully got themselves into a market niche very similar to the one occupied by Apple.

They make an integrated system of products sold at the top end of the price range to loyal customers. They have tried hard to keep prices high which preserves perceived value. Even their detractors acknowledge that their kit is well designed and made.

(Disclaimer: I have only used one Festool tool, a cordless screwdriver. I thought it was impressively compact and powerful. )

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Glad I didn't touch a nerve with this thread then

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't give a monkeys what others think. I've got nothing to prove. I just buy and use what I consider to be best for the job.

+1
Nothing whatsoever to do with 'status' or 'one-upmanship'.
How many of our friends and acquaintances have the slightest clue what is a good tool and what isn't?

Nearly all of mine. :lol:

 

[MMUK]

I don't give a monkeys what others think. I've got nothing to prove. I just buy and use what I consider to be best for the job.

+1
Nothing whatsoever to do with 'status' or 'one-upmanship'.
How many of our friends and acquaintances have the slightest clue what is a good tool and what isn't?

Depends on who you're talking about, professional user or enthusiastic amateur. Having said that I know many people both pro and am who aren't happy if they don't own the latest tool or gimmick. Half the time they never use them, it's just willy waving.

There's no particular reason 90% of my kit is Makita except that they do the best job for me, they suit my needs. I don't see why I should replace my £150 Makita circular saw with a £400 Festool one when the Makita does everything the Festool does just as well and it no less reliable.

Matey down the street may have the latest Festool gear but his finish isn't any better than mine and he's no faster to job completion. The only difference is he gets less work than me because his prices reflect his willy waving when it comes to tools.

 

[Doug B]

Matey down the street may have the latest Festool gear but his finish isn't any better than mine and he's no faster to job completion. The only difference is he gets less work than me because his prices reflect his willy waving when it comes to tools.

Typical of the garbage that make these threads pointless :roll: :roll:

 

[Woodmonkey]

You can bet that most of the detractors and naysayers have never actually used these tools, it's a case of you don't miss what you never had. But once you've tried it you will see what the fuss is about. As mouppe said, the extra cost is negligible when considered over the life of the tool.

 

[JJ1]

You can bet that most of the detractors and naysayers have never actually used these tools

That does seem to be the case. Perhaps they've got a bit of a chip on their shoulder and are a bit jealous that others can afford various Festool tools and they can't :roll:

 

[MMUK]

You can bet that most of the detractors and naysayers have never actually used these tools, it's a case of you don't miss what you never had. But once you've tried it you will see what the fuss is about. As mouppe said, the extra cost is negligible when considered over the life of the tool.

Sorry to disappoint but I've used various Festool gear and apart from excellent extraction they offer me little else that other brands don't. For my use they certainly don't offer enough over other brands to warrant an investment of near five times what my current kit stands me at in like for like replacement. It's not like they will last five times as long either.

 

[Distinterior]

I have invested in the Festool System in quite a big way over the past 2 years. What started me down this Green slippery slope??? Well, I was given a Festool CT dust extractor, a Rotex 150 sander and an OF2000 router about 5 years ago. All were dated 2002 and have been used professionally since 2002. All are still working today.

I have used and thrown away MANY Dewalt, Makita & Bosch tools in that time. I have never thrown away ANY Festool tools. Every one continues to perform as it should.

In my opinion, i think the one tool that is a bit more difficult to justify is the Kapex mitre saw. I do have one and it is VERY GOOD.....the accuracy & dust extraction on it is second to none. BUT, the difference in price between it and its nearest competition is a lot of money.

I wouldn't want to be without it in the work that I do professionally, but if I was a hobbiest woodworker, I think there are cheaper options available that do a reasonable job in comparison to the Kapex.

Just my 2pence worth!!!!!

 

[Zeddedhed]

As the owner of a fair bit of Festool kit (both Dominos, TS55 track saw and about eight or nine rails of various lengths, Sanders, Drill drivers MFT 3, extractors etc etc) my ow view is that they are extremely well built, well designed and innovative tools aimed squarely at the professional.
The implication is that they are for people who earn money with their tools.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the kit I have saves me time and helps me make more money - either on site or in the workshop.
I know that everyone and his mum is making a track saw these days, and I'm sure that a lot of them perform as well as the festool models, but no-one else is making all the add ons that turn the track saw into such a fantastic bit of kit. With a TS55 and an MFT 3 and a couple of well chosen rails it's feasible to make workshop grade cabinets on site (I'm talking about the run of the mill MDF built in kind of stuff).

I know that many of us have been doing that for years without Festool but I reckon it'd be a pretty safe bet to say that those who use their kit in this way now do it quicker, more efficiently, cleaner and also find it more enjoyable (enjoying working with your tools is pretty important too in my view)

At the end of the day my gear has paid for itself several times over. I'm not fixated on Festool as a brand but when I look at their version of a multitool for example (which they built in conjunction with Fein) I have to say that it is better. They've added functionality that the Fein version lacks and that makes it MUCH more useful.

If Makita made gear this way I'd buy it - same goes for DeWalt or Bosch (I actually own a good selection of Makita 18v gear, a Bosch Palm Sander, and three trend Routers)

There are definitely some who buy it for the kudos - you can usually spot them because their gear looks unused.

 

[woodpig]

Folks like to justify the things they buy, happens all the time on the net from tools to cameras to cars. I find it extremely amusing the lengths (and lies) that some folks go to to justify what they buy. When it comes to particularly expensive brands I get the impression sometimes that deep down even the buyer feels he's paid over the odds. The more someone waffles about how much better brand X is, the more they need to justify their purchase.

On a recent car reliability survey the most unreliable car was the Bentley but I'm sure owners can justify standing at the side of the road waiting for a breakdown truck. As a point of interest German cars don't do very well either ...

 

[n0legs]

Festool for pros = money makers.
Festool for diyers/hobbyist/gentleman woodworkers = praying the tool will make up for lack of skill.
:lol:

 

[Guggs]

Festool and Felder go hand in hand . Over priced and over rated .
Fashion dictates this . The 'in' things to have . No matter how hard Festool try they'll never beat a Makita belt sander .
My Elu router must be 25+ years old . Bulletproof, reliable and simple to use . All a machine needs to be .

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My Bosch angle grinder 28yrs, Bosch router 24yrs, Makita half sheet sander 18yrs, Bosch jigsaw 18yrs - they all still work properly despite having had hard lives. The only bummer was a Bosch SDS drill - 2yrs. For 10 - 12yrs of that they were used every day for work. It's difficult to see that anything else could have done better.

 

[Beau]

Well I never realised this was a controversial subject on here. I will bare this in mind for future posts.

 

[No skills]

I thought this would be a good one when you posted it

 

[woodpig]

Well I never realised this was a controversial subject on here. I will bare this in mind for future posts.

Just don't mention sharpening are you'll probably get banned... :lol:

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Folks like to justify the things they buy, happens all the time on the net from tools to cameras to cars. I find it extremely amusing the lengths (and lies) that some folks go to to justify what they buy. When it comes to particularly expensive brands I get the impression sometimes that deep down even the buyer feels he's paid over the odds. The more someone waffles about how much better brand X is, the more they need to justify their purchase.

On a recent car reliability survey the most unreliable car was the Bentley but I'm sure owners can justify standing at the side of the road waiting for a breakdown truck. As a point of interest German cars don't do very well either ...

I couldn't agree more. It reminds me of the famous Shakespeare quote from Julius Ceasar....."methinks yon Cassius doth protest too much" Only in the case of Festool owners, he doth defend too much! If there wasn't an element of dick measuring involved....it simply wouldn't generate the heat or the quantities of pages this thread has. If people were wholly certain about their purchase...why spend so much emotional energy defending it??

It just reinforces my original point which festool marketing have absolutely understood.....there is a section of any market that are attracted to the brand that captures the "cache" of the moment. No one can possibly argue the toss on the quality because it is clearly superb and I think the professionals have more than underlined it's practical value. It's the issue of how much more is it reasonable to shell out to access that quality when a fair comparison with the competition is made.

And I don't mean to insult the Festool camp with slang terms like dick measuring, we're all suckers for good marketing...that's why marketing works...we all fall for it in one way or another, whether it's kit kats on offer at the till or decent tools with flash paint jobs. No one is immune but it can be cathartic to acknowledge it's happening all around us! Like I say, I'm so influenced by it I'd love a whole stack of Festool kit......it's only the Yorkshire-ness in me that prevents the haemorrhage.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

On a recent car reliability survey the most unreliable car was the Bentley but I'm sure owners can justify standing at the side of the road waiting for a breakdown truck. As a point of interest German cars don't do very well either ...

Those surveys, though, are rarely granular enough. Is it that Bentleys aren't reliable in the sense that a 20-year-old banger isn't reliable, or is it that Bentley owners are more picky and will mark as a fault something that a Skoda owner (and I are one of the latter) wouldn't even notice, let alone be bothered by?

Similarly, confirmation bias is surely working both ways in this thread. I have no doubt that Festool make decent kit, even though I don't have any. But just as much as those who own it will be subject to confirmation bias, so will those who bought something else. It's also worth remembering that not a single one of us will ever own a statistically significant number of tools...