Tools for accurate cutting and grooving MDF for dolls houses

[rjb]

Hi, I want to build dolls houses as an add-on to my current craft / hobby business. I have basic DIY tools including a hand held router and very cheap table saw, but I'm struggling to achieve the quality and accuracy required. I'm working with 6mm & 9mm MDF which I need to cut to size accurately and cut grooves so the panels can be slotted together and glued.

Dolls Houses are mostly manufactured on CNC routers, but they are beyond my budget and just wouldn't be practical for my small operation. I'd like advice on what tools would be best suited to my requirements - i.e to cut and groove MDF panels with the accuracy of a CNC router, but without the automation and expense.

I have been looking at the Festool guide rail and table system which looks promising, but haven't found enough information to be sure of it's suitability - Any advice??

Many thanks

RJB

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi RJB

Welcome to the forum.

This discussion is probably one for the Pro's. Scrit?

Cheers
Neil

 

[Scrit]

Hi RJB and welcome to the forum

You're right about the use of CNCs - it's a specialised market even there as they use NBM (nest based manufacturing). To accurately cut thin MDF I'd say you need either a table saw with a sliding carraige or possibly a radial arm saw (providing your max. cross cut did not exceed 24in). Despite the howls this will doubtless cause (from Festool owners :lol: ) I'd say forget about using any hand powered saw for the squaring and sizing cuts because they're just too slow and I feel that no hand power saw will ever cut do squaring cuts consistently and with speed. I'd use a hand power saw to break down the 8 x 4s to manageable size first before going to the static machine, though. Obviously the ideal would be a panel saw, like an Altendorf or Felder, but they take a lot of space and the cost would be prohibitive.

For rebates and grooves a simple router table (even just piece of kitchen worktop with 3 x 2 in PAR pine and a couple of G-cramps for a fence) with a cheap inverted router will serve you well.

One question, though. How are you going to handle window cut-outs?

Scrit

 

[jasonB]

If you are just going to make one or two standard designs you could make an accurate template, preferably from a more durable material than MDF. This could then be fixed to your roughly cut MDF and used to guide a flush cutting bit in a router. Biggest problem will be making an accurate template, bit of a chicken & egg situation.

As Scrit says windows will be a problem if you want to avoid rounded internal corners.

Do you feel you can make money out of this, cutting by hand will take a lot more effort and time than knocking them out on a CNC machine.

One other tip, buy a decent quality MDF like Caber or Medite it is a lot less fluffy than the cheap shed bought board.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

Biggest problem will be making an accurate template, bit of a chicken & egg situation.

Get one cut on a CNC? :lol: Not as daft as it sounds in reality and if it's only a couple of designs then probably the lowest investment outlay. All you'd need would be a dimensioned drawing to start from. I've machined a number of templates in solid laminate and Tufnol for local kitchen fitters, joiners, etc but I hadn't thought about this one as I assumed we were talking one-offs. With a decent template all the cuts could be done with just a hand router, straight cutter and guide bush although an overhead pin router would be less tiring to use and less likely to damage the template in the long run (See my avatar for an industrial pin router - that's going over the top for you, but the principle is what really natters)

As Scrit says windows will be a problem if you want to avoid rounded internal corners.

There are now CNCs with square chisel aggregates which can chop a square corner, but I don't think many people have them. You can go down to 2mm diameter cutters, but personally I hate them as they break so easily - most people draw the line at 3.2mm (1/8in) as you can at least get some service life out of them and they're less prone to breakage (in a CNC router). Up to about 6mm a lot of MDF is cut on laser rather than CNC router to get round this problem. I've found the American sprung square corner chisel or the old fashioned bruzz (or corner chisel), as still made by Crown and Sorby, to be fast and effective on thin MDF.

I'd second Jason's comments about MDF quality. The other thing I'd say is get yourself some decent dust extraction. We have a long running thread elsewhere on the site about this at present.

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

H Rjb

I have to agree that the template with flush cuttoing bit in a router seesm the best way to go.

As for tools, a half decent table saw and a small router table (Trend?) should do what you need. Once you have made a few components, the setups should be marked for each and production will be quick and easy

 

[Scrit]

For repetitive template cutting as opposed to one offs you really don't want the guide bearing so close to the cutter as that is just asking for a nick to be taken out of the jig. Much better to use a guide bush and straight cutter. Durability is why kitchen worktop jigs are designed to use a guide bush and straight cutter NOT a bearing guided bit.

Scrit

 

[prawnking]

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10275

link mdf dust extraction thread
cheers

shaun

 

[Gill]

I recently visited a doll's house maker who had decided to retire and live on his wife's pension. He had a little-used scroll saw for sale, so don't buy one of those !

We discussed making doll's houses at great length and if I had the space in my workshop to make them, I would. You do need lots of room to lay out panels. You also need your workshop to be sited in the right place. One of the reasons he was retiring was that he was based in Rugby, where there was very little demand for his product. He said he spent most of his time on the road driving to London and the Home Counties.

The professional woodworkers here have given you some very sound advice if you intend to move into large scale production. The gentleman I visited didn't have such a set up, working primarily with a router, templates, a straight edge and a bandsaw to produce individual items. He told me those were all the tools he really needed, because his houses were designed as toys, not family heirlooms.

He cut out windows and doors following a template with a router and a small bit, but he said it didn't matter about the curved corners because he masked them with frames he cut on the router table.

From what you've said, you've probably already got most of the tools you'll need to make doll's houses apart from a saw and a router table. The gentleman I visited happened to use a bandsaw but I should imagine a tablesaw would be an acceptable alternative.

Gill

Edit: I've just noticed you've already got a tablesaw. Doh! (homer) Perhaps an upgrade might be in order?

 

[rjb]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the excellent advice on this subject - it's certainly given me food for thought. In response to some of the points raised I'd like to clarify my situation and requirements.

I'm only planning to make dolls houses on a small scale - maybe one every few weeks. I may repeat the same design occasionally, but I'm hoping to mainly make individual houses rather than mass producing one design as I can't compete with the CNC manufacturers and individually designed dolls houses tend to sell to a different market for a higher price. I'm not planning to earn a living from this, just supplement my existing income.

Basically I want to be able to cut MDF sheet (and possibly Birch Ply) very accurately and squarely first time every time (and also rebates). I don't mind spending a few hours cutting out the panels for one house, but at the moment I'm wasting a lot of time and material due to inaccurate cutting.

I'm currently cutting out the window openings using a hand router and template which is working ok.

My workshop is a single garage so space is rather limited.

I did ask about the Festool guide rail and table system, but haven't had much feedback on that - Has anyone had any experience of these? ...and would they recommend them?. Are there other similar products which are recommended?

Many thanks,

RJB

 

[rjb]

...sorry, ..in addition to my previous post I meant to ask, if the Festool system is not recommended could anyone recommend a good table saw and router table to suit my requirements. My budget is quite flexible, it's more a question of quality, suitability and machine size??

Thanks,

RJB

 

[LyNx]

I'm currently cutting out the window openings using a hand router and template which is working ok.

My workshop is a single garage so space is rather limited.

I did ask about the Festool guide rail and table system, but haven't had much feedback on that - Has anyone had any experience of these? ...and would they recommend them?. Are there other similar products which are recommended?

This would suit the festool guide rail well. I too have a small single garage so it's alot easier to lay the sheet flat on my workstation and cut the panels out square first time. PLus you have the advantage of storing right out of the way when coming to assemble. Where is the UK are you based?

Andy

 

[jasonB]

There are quite a few members who wouldn't be without their festool saw & guide, try a search in the buying advice forum. If just using MDF then a simple clamp & guide and a cordless circular saw will do but the festool will be better for ply as you don't get tearout.

The same clamp & guide could be used to run the base of your router along to fine tune any edges or cut grooves, for rebates you would be better using a bearing guided rebate cutter.

Have a look at the Trend clampguides

Jason

 

[Mike.C]

Ok Jason i was just trying to help the guy, and i did not mention their table saw.

I pointed him in their direction because he does not have much space, and they manufacturer small, but very good tools.

By the way where can you buy a Scheppach TS2010 for £210?

Mike

 

[jasonB]

Wouldn't fancy trying to balance a 3'x2' (average dolls house front) on a table saw thats only 12"x8", a hand saw would be more accurate and safer.

Is it just me or does the Proxxon stuff seem really expensive? you could buy a scheppach TS2010 for the same price as their "table" saw.

Jason

 

[Mike.C]

SEE ABOVE

Cheers

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

You must enter a message when posting

 

[Scrit]

Or was it 'Picador' spindles perhaps?

It sure was - Sheffield's finest.....

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

jason yes, proxxon is very expensive in our terms, but for what it does,
it is pro stuff, proper quality.

i bought one of their other table saws which was about 80 quid, and would be useful for cleaning up the small pieces.

i wonder whether there is some value to make the windows in such a way
that a lintel, two uprights and a ledge cover any rounded corners.

i think you should consider the festo and rail, or even the
mafell system with the roll up rail, ksp40, goes back into a smallish
box.

noticed something recently in one of the american mags about using a large piece of insulating plastic as a cutting surface, or you can set up
4 or so 2x1's on which you can set the large sheet before cutting.

paul :wink:

 

[rjb]

Hi,

Thanks again for all the information and advice given.

I think I can make better use of my router using the clamp guides suggested and a router table which I'll try making myself.

I'm still a little unsure about the best saw for the job - I've been looking at small table saws, but I think it's going to be difficult to work accurately unless I have one with a sliding carriage and the ones I've seen are too big for my workshop. I've also been looking at radial arm saws as suggested and these look like they may be more suitable in terms of size and function. I've seen several De Walt ones on ebay selling for £150 - £250, they have a decent sized work table and I think I can manage with the 2ft max cross cut. I am a little concerned about the accuracy of these saws as I imagine that any movement in the sliding arm mechanism could lead to inaccurate cutting of the sheet material.

Once again any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

RJB.