Who could criticise that?
Tier 4
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Who could criticise that?
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
But you must have noticed that a balanced and courteous exchange of views is practically impossible.
If for instance one has a view supported, then loads of back up.
But if one has a view that is not supported then this suddenly becomes a woodwork forum and why are you peddling that heresy here?
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
I strongly suspect that quite a lot of people will publicly express the 'right' opinion, whilst doing something entirely different themselves.
My old mum had a health scare (not Covid) just at the start of the first lockdown. That entailed me being carer, and therefore driving to and fro, doing her shopping and so on pretty well every day. Remarkable how quiet the roads were. Still doing care duties during second lockdown - traffic was marginally less than normal, but markedly more than first lockdown.
This is the worst time of year for respiratory diseases of all kinds, so it can't be any sort of surprise to any health professionals or epidemiologists that case numbers are high. Why measures couldn't be taken back in the summer to provide some extra hospital capacity over the winter, I don't know. I do know that whatever the covid outcomes, we'll be trying to recover from the economic and social colateral damage for (probably) decades. Moot point whether the 'cure' is (long term) worse than the disease.
My old mum had a health scare (not Covid) just at the start of the first lockdown. That entailed me being carer, and therefore driving to and fro, doing her shopping and so on pretty well every day. Remarkable how quiet the roads were. Still doing care duties during second lockdown - traffic was marginally less than normal, but markedly more than first lockdown.
This is the worst time of year for respiratory diseases of all kinds, so it can't be any sort of surprise to any health professionals or epidemiologists that case numbers are high. Why measures couldn't be taken back in the summer to provide some extra hospital capacity over the winter, I don't know. I do know that whatever the covid outcomes, we'll be trying to recover from the economic and social colateral damage for (probably) decades. Moot point whether the 'cure' is (long term) worse than the disease.
Stop it with the common sense, government has banned that.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/tier-4.127272/reply?quote=1418726
*sigh*
Sadly, I know exactly what you mean ....
*sigh*
Sadly, I know exactly what you mean ....
Being a grumpy old git means that we are alone in the Garno house at Christmas, I really don't give a monkies what tier I am in. If the whole area is in lockdown then so be it, If the whole area is in tier 1 then happy days, it is what it is and nothing is going to change that.
DBT85
Established Member
I can say that their 2nd or 3rd (depending on when they are born) will be way more enjoyable. My little girl turned 3 in august so this year shes really into it all so its real shame she won't get a normal Christmas this year. but such is the situation we find ourselves in.
Maybe if we'd been in lockdown until xmas we could have all had a jolly but that's not how its gone. As it is I expect a full 4-6 week national lockdown come Jan 1st at the latest.
If the Oxford Vaccine gets approved then everyone over 60 could be vaccinated by probably the middle of March which would be a big turning point.
TheUnicorn
Established Member
heard somewhere (tv) last week that it could take a year to vaccinate everyone, and then what? do the elderly and vunerable have it every year from now on like the flu jab? The oxford vaccine does seem like a game changer though in terms of cost and ease of rollout (temperature).
Doug B
Shy Tot
Doug B
Shy Tot
I’m absolutely gutted, the mother & father in law have said it’s best if they don’t come for Xmas this year 
beech1948
Established Member
Just called my son to cancel our Xmass get together. Will miss my grandson and son.
BUT this new Tier 4 lock down is overdue. The R rates have been increasing above 1 for 3 months and no Gov'mt action. So not surprised, selfishly being self concerned but not raging.
As a diabetic I am at risk of getting this Covid rubbish; going to hospital and dying. All seems a bit extreme to me as death is a finalish thing. No coming back from that.
What does annoy me are the many thousands of people who do not keep a distance of 2 m between me than them, who crowd in to supermarkets with no thought as to otherss in their path.
The Gov is just reacting. Its not their fault but is the fault of the many useless humans who ignore all pretence of trying to distance, touching others, not wearing masks all under pretence of personal Freedom. There is no freedom in death. No freedom in struggling through infection.
I'm off back to my workshop where only good things can happen even at 9 O'clock at night
BUT this new Tier 4 lock down is overdue. The R rates have been increasing above 1 for 3 months and no Gov'mt action. So not surprised, selfishly being self concerned but not raging.
As a diabetic I am at risk of getting this Covid rubbish; going to hospital and dying. All seems a bit extreme to me as death is a finalish thing. No coming back from that.
What does annoy me are the many thousands of people who do not keep a distance of 2 m between me than them, who crowd in to supermarkets with no thought as to otherss in their path.
The Gov is just reacting. Its not their fault but is the fault of the many useless humans who ignore all pretence of trying to distance, touching others, not wearing masks all under pretence of personal Freedom. There is no freedom in death. No freedom in struggling through infection.
I'm off back to my workshop where only good things can happen even at 9 O'clock at night
Doug B
Shy Tot
There’s some quick witted devils out there
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
Now "they" say the virus has mutated, do you need a different vaccine. Will you have to have two vaccines? or more?
treeturner123
Established Member
It's all very well to moan and groan about this, but the risk to health, the NHS as a whole and life as we knew it in general is getting more serious due to the mutations in this (like all viruses). The balance is between what doctors etc would like ie total lockdown for a considerable time and to hell with the economy and allowing people the freedom of choice.
How many of you would like to be the PM and make these decisions. I know for one I wouldn't and I'm glad that there are politicians who do this on my behalf.
I can think of several leaders of all main parties who would have made a much worse pigs ear of it!
In any case, we should be glad and amazed that scientists can, so speedily, identify a new strain, look at ways it differs and work out the potential issues that it will give and all in less than 7 days.
Phil - sorry not to be seeing grandchildren but wanting all his extended family to be safe this Christmas.
And as Happy a Christmas as possible to you all.
How many of you would like to be the PM and make these decisions. I know for one I wouldn't and I'm glad that there are politicians who do this on my behalf.
I can think of several leaders of all main parties who would have made a much worse pigs ear of it!
In any case, we should be glad and amazed that scientists can, so speedily, identify a new strain, look at ways it differs and work out the potential issues that it will give and all in less than 7 days.
Phil - sorry not to be seeing grandchildren but wanting all his extended family to be safe this Christmas.
And as Happy a Christmas as possible to you all.
I'd be delighted if my mother and father in law turned up for Xmas this year. Both lovely people, but both dead.
I believe a lack of honesty and straightforwardness makes people lose faith and has caused loads of complications. I said in the beginning that it would have been sensible it the government and the press differentiated between what was advice and what was law, and I still believe that. I saw dozens of people this morning in a queue for a market butcher's - I was in the queue - standing two metres apart. Wearing masks, outdoors in a howling gale. Where on earth did they think their breath was going?
One of the thing that irritates me the most is the misuse of statistics. Lies, damned lies, statistics and government figures (I'm not knocking the government per se - whomever was in power would have screwed it up just the same). I read of someone given a week to live because of a terminal disease - he got covid and his death was recorded as caused by covid, which is undoubtedly technically correct but to my mind meaningless. In the national press a thread I was following quoted a survey that stated that 14% more people in the sample group (50% masked, 50% without) had caught covid. This "fact" was used to show that masks were wise and necessary - despite the 14% being the difference between 1.7% and 2.1% (iirc) of the sample group who caught it and not 14% of the group as a whole. The difference was small enough to have been explained by something else. In this area you're probably about twenty times more likely to catch it going shopping than you are in a pub.
I heard on the radio years ago a speaker giving a talk on the misuse of statistics. Apparently if you are teetotal you are likely to die younger than drinkers. This seems odd until it's explained - teetotal is used in its true sense, NEVER touching alcohol. It excludes your ancient maiden aunt who has a sherry every Xmas, and people who have a sip of champagne to celebrate something, but there are a lot non drinking alcoholics - which skews the figures.
I have health issues (few of you have had anything remotely like mine), I don't want to catch it, but I have an idea - if you're at risk keep out of other people's way. The rest of you get back to work and pay for it.
(Incidentally, I don't know or know of anyone who's had it, and I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has - we haven't much money down here, but plenty of south westerly wind).
I believe a lack of honesty and straightforwardness makes people lose faith and has caused loads of complications. I said in the beginning that it would have been sensible it the government and the press differentiated between what was advice and what was law, and I still believe that. I saw dozens of people this morning in a queue for a market butcher's - I was in the queue - standing two metres apart. Wearing masks, outdoors in a howling gale. Where on earth did they think their breath was going?
One of the thing that irritates me the most is the misuse of statistics. Lies, damned lies, statistics and government figures (I'm not knocking the government per se - whomever was in power would have screwed it up just the same). I read of someone given a week to live because of a terminal disease - he got covid and his death was recorded as caused by covid, which is undoubtedly technically correct but to my mind meaningless. In the national press a thread I was following quoted a survey that stated that 14% more people in the sample group (50% masked, 50% without) had caught covid. This "fact" was used to show that masks were wise and necessary - despite the 14% being the difference between 1.7% and 2.1% (iirc) of the sample group who caught it and not 14% of the group as a whole. The difference was small enough to have been explained by something else. In this area you're probably about twenty times more likely to catch it going shopping than you are in a pub.
I heard on the radio years ago a speaker giving a talk on the misuse of statistics. Apparently if you are teetotal you are likely to die younger than drinkers. This seems odd until it's explained - teetotal is used in its true sense, NEVER touching alcohol. It excludes your ancient maiden aunt who has a sherry every Xmas, and people who have a sip of champagne to celebrate something, but there are a lot non drinking alcoholics - which skews the figures.
I have health issues (few of you have had anything remotely like mine), I don't want to catch it, but I have an idea - if you're at risk keep out of other people's way. The rest of you get back to work and pay for it.
(Incidentally, I don't know or know of anyone who's had it, and I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has - we haven't much money down here, but plenty of south westerly wind
).
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billw
The Tattooed One
Even in normal times every Xmas could be the last time you see a family member because we are beings with a multitude of ways of shuffling off this mortal coil.
Those who stubbornly demand to have a “normal” Xmas have a point that it might be the last for some, but these aren’t normal times and trying to adhere to normal might simply make it the last Xmas for some a bit quicker than it should be.
The whole thing is just a battle of dogmatism v pragmatism, rights v responsibilities, and individual v collective. Just like those news stories (in the US especially) that have headlines of “I didn’t believe COVID was real and now I’m dying from it”, everyone is free (sadly) to make their own choices and if they result in negative outcomes then sympathy is going to be hard to come by from me.
Those who stubbornly demand to have a “normal” Xmas have a point that it might be the last for some, but these aren’t normal times and trying to adhere to normal might simply make it the last Xmas for some a bit quicker than it should be.
The whole thing is just a battle of dogmatism v pragmatism, rights v responsibilities, and individual v collective. Just like those news stories (in the US especially) that have headlines of “I didn’t believe COVID was real and now I’m dying from it”, everyone is free (sadly) to make their own choices and if they result in negative outcomes then sympathy is going to be hard to come by from me.
I said commenting on an article in the press a few months ago that apparently two strains had been identified. An Oxbridge professor replied saying that was incorrect. There would by then probably have been hundreds.
billw
The Tattooed One
The flu has multiple strains and each year the jab only protects against four of them, decided by the WHO in March each year as being the most likely to be the ones that will be a problem.
Will a coronavirus jab be the end of all this? Of course not.
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Unlikely, the new strain has not changed that much but if it does, vaccines can be tweaked to address the change, much like, I believe, the flu vaccine every year.
There's been many thousands of changes, normal enough apparently with RNA virus but all are of little consequence other than helping to track infections.
t8hants
Established Member
We have an interesting conundrum, we are tier 1, Pompey is now tier 4 half the ferry crews live in tier 4 and should not travel out of it. Our holiday camps are full of people from tiers 3 and now 4, we have even had people coming over here to visit the pub. The ferry companies have no power of enforcement so wouldn't stop anyone from coming over anyway.
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