Table Saw kickback and trimmed finger (Graphic description & images)
- Thread starter BarbaraT
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HOJ
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I hope you get better soon, my advice would be, not to set unrealistic targets, and put unwarranted pressure/stress on, which is how these "incidents" end up happening (been there and done it!!)
Thanks for posting this. Sorry about your accident. I’ve only had one incident with mine where it flung a piece of wood at me and hit me in the chest. It happens, as you say, so quickly.
i have become complacent with it. New push sticks to be fabricated tomorrow.
i have become complacent with it. New push sticks to be fabricated tomorrow.
That was something often discussed by engineers in automotive development. If you give a driver a car that has airbags, side impact bars and many other safety features so they feel really safe and invincable then they do tend to drive with less awareness of safety and take more risk.
That is a good feeling to have, it is a dangerous machine and should never be taken for granted plus no mater how much experience you have with using one it will always remain as dangerous, the only thing that changes is peoples perception so treat it like a wild animal knowing it will never be fully tamed.
Thank you for posting this, very brave. I'm glad you are not put off, really nasty. Thanks for sharing your learning, even with a push stick accidents happen. The merchants and especially American Youtubers, give the impression a TS is just another tool, but its a major hazard, as you have pointed out. The HSE is slack in this respect.
Thanks to the members on this forum I've used two push sticks for most of the time since I foolishly bought a merchants TS. It still didnt stop me nicking the end of my thumb under the guard when the blade was very low and at 45 degree angle - too tired after a day at work, smallish nick but hurt like mad. Still felt sensitive 12 months later, but it does all grow back.
Thanks to the members on this forum I've used two push sticks for most of the time since I foolishly bought a merchants TS. It still didnt stop me nicking the end of my thumb under the guard when the blade was very low and at 45 degree angle - too tired after a day at work, smallish nick but hurt like mad. Still felt sensitive 12 months later, but it does all grow back.
Scary accident, thanks for sharing and reminding us of the dangers.
A lot of talk about push sticks. I instead do almost all solid wood ripping on the bandsaw, that way you avoid nearly all those narrow cuts where the push stick doesn't really fit between the blade guard and the fence. Also problem with twist and stresses in the wood is of no danger on the bandsaw. Wood needs to go to the planer or jointer anyway after ripping so I see no reason to do these cuts on the table saw.
For me that leaves the tablesaw to crosscuts and cutting sheet goods and doing joinery, these cuts are less prone to cause problems than ripping solid wood.
It seems like tradition that tablesaw is the preferred machine for ripping, for some reason.
A lot of talk about push sticks. I instead do almost all solid wood ripping on the bandsaw, that way you avoid nearly all those narrow cuts where the push stick doesn't really fit between the blade guard and the fence. Also problem with twist and stresses in the wood is of no danger on the bandsaw. Wood needs to go to the planer or jointer anyway after ripping so I see no reason to do these cuts on the table saw.
For me that leaves the tablesaw to crosscuts and cutting sheet goods and doing joinery, these cuts are less prone to cause problems than ripping solid wood.
It seems like tradition that tablesaw is the preferred machine for ripping, for some reason.
I wish I had gone down that path, quite tight for space but interested in a band saw, do you have a recommendation. I probably do about 4 hrs per week of work, mainly using hand tools. Often in burst through the winter on major projects, but probably average 250 hrs per year, so could justify the investment, but carefull with the space.
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Forgive me saying somewhat needlessly... it will. It is a sign that much of the neural tissue is intact and healing is taking place with continuous stimulation of the nervous tissues surrounding the injury. Peripheral nerves grow at a rate of around 1mm per month so the further the injury is from a relevant neural pathway, the longer it takes to regain sensory and motor functions. From your pictures, the injuries look to be healing as well as one could expect. I am glad to know that you've kept your hand. I am really pleased to see that you are recovering the health of your hand and you can be sure that the function will follow, with good physio and regular hand therapy exercises. Enjoy the enforced rest while you can, you will be busy as ever in little time.
It was a completely selfless (and very much appreciated) public service posting your graphic images and the sorry tale that caused them to be taken. Your post and images will serve as a cautionary tale for all people who use dangerous machinery.
The delay to your project, while irritating, is a small part of the cost of that terrible incident. If the prospect of using the table saw in future remains as an anxiety inducing thought, you may decide to have the timber cut to the almost finished sizes which you desire. Possibly it is not as satisfying as doing the whole project from start to finish yourself but if it can allay your fears, while underpinning a new found respect for machinery with sharp whirling pieces... and that is a good thing.™
We may often use the services of others to progress projects and there is no shame in that. I have just had a new shed made for me from 22mm thick timber. It is 8' x 12' in size and far larger than my modest tools could handle without struggling. I have a good plunge saw with a pair of 1.4m guide rails but I have only used it to cut down 8' x 4' sheets of 5mm ply, which I had used to hold the Celotex sheets in place while lining the shed. I had saw kickback incidents twice while using this saw and I had somehow contrived to put two expensive guide rails beyond reasonable use.
Like many folk enjoying their 7th decade, I could wire a plug or a fuse when I was in school. I understand many simple electrical concepts yet I hired a commercial electrician. He installed a couple of radial circuits for 6 socket outlets on each circuit and a lighting circuit. He added the fuse board and RCBOs for the shed along with the armoured cable from house to shed and a fuse board with RCBOs and an RCD in the house so that I was now compliant with revision 18 standards. I potentially could have done this work in a pinch and then found a friendly electrician to test the circuits (I did that once before when completely rewiring a 3 floored urban home) but it would have taken me days. The person I hired was punctual, worked neatly and priced fairly and the whole job was done in under 6 hours then tested and certificated.
Peronally I have a 350mm wheel small variant from Sweden with very stable one piece cast iron frame. With the right blade it's an excellent ripper. Don't live in uk so have problems to recommend something for you, but I guess there are plenty of bandsaw threads on this forum, or start a new one.
Your fingers are healing , it will hurt for a long time but you still have them .
I mentioned in an earlier post about a chap working at my friends house . He cut 2 of his fingers to the bone using a small mitre saw . he showed me a pic of his injuries . He has 2 horrific looking wires inserted through the length of his injured fingers but like yours they are healing . My own accident with the angle grinder required no major surgery but hurt for several weeks but eventually reduced . As per others the saw stop is a good safety measure, I tried buying one a few years back but they wouldn’t ship it to the uk . I had to buy a job site saw due to space but my fingers are intact -!the reason is 1 - I didn’t turn in on for a couple of weeks, watched loads of vids , avoided the American suicidal vids and read a few good threads on this site . T/s p/t spindle moulder, router, circular saw, grinder, drill, jig saw , electric planer , chainsaw etc etc are all capable of consuming your fingers or your complete hand . We often sense that a task or procedure we are doing is a really bad idea a mili second before it all goes wrong . Doing a dry run or a rehearsal can identify possible conflicts . Take care and keep up your positive attitude ohh and merry Christmas /happy new year
Absolutely right - running through what you need to do and thinking consciously about where your hands will be is a really good starting point.
My wife is a hand & trauma surgeon so deals with a lot of the outcome of accidents - there are some tools where the accident is more common because the tool is always out to get you - chain saw / circular saw / angle grinder - all because they are hand held, and then table saw... however she does also see other accidents from machinery that might be considered much safer - from thicknessers to pillar drills, lawn mowers to extractor fans - anything with a moving part powered by a strong enough motor may take off a finger... however, underlying the reason for the accident is never the tool itself, it is always in how it has been used and carelessness / lack of thought / being in a hurry / being distracted are some of the more common reasons why accidents happen. Not turning a machine off before clearing a blockage / hand-holding the work piece rather than clamping it down / using hands with too small a piece of wood / cluttered or slippery or dangerous environments / etc. She doesn't often see people who think it all through, plan it carefully, do a mental dry run and then use the machine, they still have their fingers...
work safely!
He is also upto date with fitting the radials, there are still to many that remain in the dark ages and use rings so you have a good electrician there and you have total peace of mind that it is safe.
@BarbaraT sorry to see this - hope your recovery progress is good. You seem like a very sensible tablesaw user, which probably prevented it being much worse. We are all always learning.
Should I been expecting to see the next instalment of your finger WIP shortly?
(too soon?
)
Should I been expecting to see the next instalment of your finger WIP shortly?
(too soon?
)Cabinetman
Established Member
I’ve been away and have just seen this thread thanks to a "like" for a thread I started back in 2021? about how to use a Tablesaw safely. Apologies for the photo that has the blade too high, but the other shots show push sticks being used to keep digits well away from danger. So sorry to see Barbara's damaged fingers.
Even though I say it myself and using staged photos you could do worse than look at this post.
Thanks Ian
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...od-safely-on-a-table-saw.130321/#post-1466251
Even though I say it myself and using staged photos you could do worse than look at this post.
Thanks Ian
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...od-safely-on-a-table-saw.130321/#post-1466251
Doug71
Established Member
@Cabinetman good to see you posting here 
I've said it before (not popular with some) but I don't think your blade is too high.... based on my experience as long as you are using a blade guard I think a higher blade is better.
The front of a high blade is pushing the timber down to the table, if the timber tightens on the back of a high blade yes it will lift it but the guard will stop this.
If the blade is low and the timber tightens around the back of it that is when the work piece will fire back at you, aka kickback...........
I've said it before (not popular with some) but I don't think your blade is too high.... based on my experience as long as you are using a blade guard I think a higher blade is better.
The front of a high blade is pushing the timber down to the table, if the timber tightens on the back of a high blade yes it will lift it but the guard will stop this.
If the blade is low and the timber tightens around the back of it that is when the work piece will fire back at you, aka kickback...........
Hi all, I have read the whole thread with interest. First off I am sorry that you got injured, I hope that you heal well and continue with your work. Thank you for posting, it is helpful to all to understand the circumstances of an accident. I would like some more information, to help me better understand, if you wouldn't mind. How long was the lumber? Why did the kickback happen? Was the piece that you were cutting cut into two pieces when the accident happened? did both pieces kickback? or was one piece or the other? was the 1x4 between the blade and fence? and the waste piece 3x4, Was the3x4 on the waste side and the piece that you were pressing against the fence with your left hand? Was your left hand moving toward the blade when moving the wood through the blade, or was your left hand planted on the table ahead of the blade and stationary? Did you press the offcut into the blade causing it to kickback? Sorry for all of the questions, I don't understand why it kicked back and I am just trying to get a clear picture of what happened and why.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Thanks!@Cabinetman good to see you posting here
I've said it before (not popular with some) but I don't think your blade is too high.... based on my experience as long as you are using a blade guard I think a higher blade is better.
The front of a high blade is pushing the timber down to the table, if the timber tightens on the back of a high blade yes it will lift it but the guard will stop this.
If the blade is low and the timber tightens around the back of it that is when the work piece will fire back at you, aka kickback...........
Yes I agree particularly about kickback and puts much less strain and heat on the blade, also I suppose they might have been thinking about the amount of sawdust released, but with a decent extraction system that's not a problem .
worn thumbs
Established Member
As far as kickback risk goes,that is the logical assumption.On the other hand the direction of travel of the teeth as they exit the work will have a tendency to increase the amount of splintering on the bottom surface.It isn't such a problem if your machine has a scribing saw but few hobbyists are in that position and I believe a scribing saw to be associated with dangers of it's own.Caution around all running saws is the best policy.@Cabinetman good to see you posting here
I've said it before (not popular with some) but I don't think your blade is too high.... based on my experience as long as you are using a blade guard I think a higher blade is better.
The front of a high blade is pushing the timber down to the table, if the timber tightens on the back of a high blade yes it will lift it but the guard will stop this.
If the blade is low and the timber tightens around the back of it that is when the work piece will fire back at you, aka kickback...........
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
I assume you mean scoring saw rather than scribing saw. Generally, such saws have neither use nor relevance in dimensioning solid wood. Scoring saws come into their own with board materials, especially those covered in delicate show surfaces such as veneer and melamine, their purpose being to reduce or eliminate tearout or spelch on the underside of the cut.
And, yes, scoring saws do have their own health and safety risks as they are exposed a short distance forward of the main blade - I've seen a few (maybe three or four) examples of fingers and hands rather nastily cut by scoring saws, as well as show surfaces damaged as people slide a board accidentally and/or carelessly across the spinning blade - er, hmm, done that myself at least once if the truth be told. Slainte.
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