When I learned to drive (1970) my grandfather told me 45mph was fast enough for anyone. He did 45mph everywhere, through towns, on dual carriageways, around roundabouts ................. he was terrifying.
Speed Awareness Course
- Thread starter Cordy
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I remember being in a group of about 100 bikes on the M5 one afternoon many years ago. The road ahead was clear except for an old lady in a Morris Minor (seems to be a theme here) doing about 40mph in the middle lane (of course). We were cruising at 90mph - 100mph and without anyone's slowing half the bikes went outside and half inside. In our mirrors was one very white knuckled old lady, still in the middle lane, hands still at ten to two who wasn't quite sure what had happened. 
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I had a 1953 Morris Minor I bought in Cornwall(RAF 512, I think). About the only time it managed more than 40mph was going down that big hill at Rejerrah(sp).
Used nearly as much oil as it did petrol, and that's not because it was highly fuel efficient.
Used nearly as much oil as it did petrol, and that's not because it was highly fuel efficient.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
As a (much) younger and (only slightly more stupid) man I remember passing an elderly couple in a Nissan Micra; while cracking 120mph+ on a naked bike (no fairing). Despite the wind resistance throwing your head around like a rag doll at that speed I still have a memory of their surprised faces from my wing mirrorsI remember being in a group of about 100 bikes on the M5 one afternoon many years ago. The road ahead was clear except for an old lady in a Morris Minor (seems to be a theme here) doing about 40mph in the middle lane (of course). We were cruising at 90mph - 100mph and without anyone's slowing half the bikes went outside and half inside. In our mirrors was one very white knuckled old lady, still in the middle lane, hands still at ten to two who wasn't quite sure what had happened.
(I would note that it was a very wide and straight road, and I passed them with well over a car's width of room - as much as for my safety as theirs)
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
In the early 70's when "we" were all tooling around in Ford Anglia's and Mini's one of the lads disappeared for a week before resurfacing in a tatty old moggy that he had fitted with an engine from a wrecked MGBGT.
Very, very fast, but wouldn't go round corners.
The first four wheeled vehicle that I owned was a Morris van.
Yorkieguy
Established Member
QUOTE:
Highway Code Rule 144
You MUST NOT
Drive dangerously
Drive without due care and attention
Drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Driving requires focus and attention at all times. Remember, you may be driving dangerously or travelling too fast even if you don’t mean to.
Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991
Rule 146
Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular
Do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit.
Take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution.
Where there are junctions, be prepared for road users emerging.
in sideroads and country lanes look out for unmarked junctions where nobody has priority
Be prepared to stop at traffic control systems, road works, pedestrian crossings or traffic lights as necessary.
Try to anticipate what pedestrians and cyclists might do. If pedestrians, particularly children, are looking the other way, they may step out into the road without seeing you.
END QUOTE.
As to 'driving too slowly', if you are driving as you would in your driving test, within the speed limit at a speed appropriate to the road conditions, at the correct thinking/stopping distance between yourself and the vehicle in front, rather too many drivers will think you are driving too slowly. In a 30 - they want to do 40, in a 40, they want to do 50, come what may.
That said, if people drive too slow for the conditions, they irritate other drivers who then take chances to overtake. On motorways and dual carriageways with a 70 limit, if conditions permit, it seems to me that anything below 50 in the inside lane can pose a hazard and impede other traffic.
Minimum Speed Limits and Driving Too Slow
On motorways, rather too many people stick in the middle lane mile after mile which risks a fine and points, and too many HGVs drive far too close to each other. Ironically, they often have a notice on the back door saying 'If you can't see my mirrors - I can't see you', yet all they can see is the back door of the HGV in front of them.
The Institute of Advanced Driving 'IPSGA' system of driving & riding has much to commend it. It’s based on the police system of vehicle control and forms the foundation of the IAM Advanced courses. Advanced Driving and Riding is all about the continuous application of IPSGA whenever you are out on the road, which helps you to adopt a systematic approach to any hazard that may arise.
‘IPSGA’:
Information.
Position.
Speed.
Gear.
Acceleration.
What is IPSGA | IAM RoadSmart | Tips for Safe Driving
Hope that's of interest.
Highway Code Rule 144
You MUST NOT
Drive dangerously
Drive without due care and attention
Drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Driving requires focus and attention at all times. Remember, you may be driving dangerously or travelling too fast even if you don’t mean to.
Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991
Rule 146
Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular
Do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit.
Take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution.
Where there are junctions, be prepared for road users emerging.
in sideroads and country lanes look out for unmarked junctions where nobody has priority
Be prepared to stop at traffic control systems, road works, pedestrian crossings or traffic lights as necessary.
Try to anticipate what pedestrians and cyclists might do. If pedestrians, particularly children, are looking the other way, they may step out into the road without seeing you.
END QUOTE.
As to 'driving too slowly', if you are driving as you would in your driving test, within the speed limit at a speed appropriate to the road conditions, at the correct thinking/stopping distance between yourself and the vehicle in front, rather too many drivers will think you are driving too slowly. In a 30 - they want to do 40, in a 40, they want to do 50, come what may.
That said, if people drive too slow for the conditions, they irritate other drivers who then take chances to overtake. On motorways and dual carriageways with a 70 limit, if conditions permit, it seems to me that anything below 50 in the inside lane can pose a hazard and impede other traffic.
Minimum Speed Limits and Driving Too Slow
On motorways, rather too many people stick in the middle lane mile after mile which risks a fine and points, and too many HGVs drive far too close to each other. Ironically, they often have a notice on the back door saying 'If you can't see my mirrors - I can't see you', yet all they can see is the back door of the HGV in front of them.
The Institute of Advanced Driving 'IPSGA' system of driving & riding has much to commend it. It’s based on the police system of vehicle control and forms the foundation of the IAM Advanced courses. Advanced Driving and Riding is all about the continuous application of IPSGA whenever you are out on the road, which helps you to adopt a systematic approach to any hazard that may arise.
‘IPSGA’:
Information.
Position.
Speed.
Gear.
Acceleration.
What is IPSGA | IAM RoadSmart | Tips for Safe Driving
Hope that's of interest.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Is this very long, uninteresting deeply fascinating, unstoppable thread being generated automatically by AI?
Mine was a Ford Popular
Mine was a Ford Popular
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throbscottle
Established Member
It's because they're frustrated at all the traffic lights (Leicester's population is measured in traffic lights per head, you know). I find them mostly on the ball, but impatient and aggressive. Permanent "beat the lights" mode.
Jester129
Established Member
I once counted 11 sets of lights within less than half a mile in Leicester. It's ridiculous! It's as if the road planners are in doubt, the stick a set of lights there.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Whereabouts exactly? Where are 11 crossroads and/or zebra crossings in half a mile? Name the road?
PS The Golden Mile! More than you counted too!
"A 700 metre stretch of the Golden Mile between Belgrave Circle and Loughborough Road, has around 20 sets of traffic lights."
An extremely busy town centre street with many junctions and crossings for large numbers of pedestrians.
Apparently it's an engineered means of creating a smooth flow with less stop starting and not as mad as it seems.
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/leicester-many-traffic-lights-should-1400381
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Jester129
Established Member
Don't believe everything you read, Jacob. Most people avoid 'the Golden Mile' like the plague: you get caught on the first set of lights, you get caught on all of them!
The road where I started the count was on Havelock Street, left turn then another left turn onto Aylestone Road, right turn onto Welford Road.
Next left onto Tigers Way and continue until the half mile is up, approaching London Road Railway Station. Check it out on the AA route planner from LRI to the train station. I visit the LRI regularly, taking patients there for radiotherapy treatment and the like as a volunteer.
You meet some unfortunate but lovely, positive people that have enough to worry about without the hassle of transport to and from hospital for their treatment. There really does need to be more volunteers around, even to visit people in their own homes fur a cuppa and a chat. Some people wouldn't get to talk to anyone all week.
The world is a lonely place, I have my 2 labs since I lost my wife at the end of March, but they're not much good to talk with. Getting out and helping others is great, try it. The RVS (ex-WRVS) is so grateful for their volunteers.
Sermon over (sorry for the long post).
Jeff
The road where I started the count was on Havelock Street, left turn then another left turn onto Aylestone Road, right turn onto Welford Road.
Next left onto Tigers Way and continue until the half mile is up, approaching London Road Railway Station. Check it out on the AA route planner from LRI to the train station. I visit the LRI regularly, taking patients there for radiotherapy treatment and the like as a volunteer.
You meet some unfortunate but lovely, positive people that have enough to worry about without the hassle of transport to and from hospital for their treatment. There really does need to be more volunteers around, even to visit people in their own homes fur a cuppa and a chat. Some people wouldn't get to talk to anyone all week.
The world is a lonely place, I have my 2 labs since I lost my wife at the end of March, but they're not much good to talk with. Getting out and helping others is great, try it. The RVS (ex-WRVS) is so grateful for their volunteers.
Sermon over (sorry for the long post).
Jeff
XH558
Established Member
Boy, this was a fun read.
For my sins I have been delivering Speed Awareness courses since June 2006. We as a group of trainers (ADI'S as well) thought this would have a short shelf life once word got around.....
Boy were we wrong. Here we are in 2024 and we now operate hybrid models. In class or on line, via ZOOM/TEAMS depending upon the course providers preference. I have also delivered the Motorway Awareness Course and what was called NDIS (now Safe and Considerate Driving (SCD) courses but Just do speed from the comfort of home and only on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
For my sins I have been delivering Speed Awareness courses since June 2006. We as a group of trainers (ADI'S as well) thought this would have a short shelf life once word got around.....
Boy were we wrong. Here we are in 2024 and we now operate hybrid models. In class or on line, via ZOOM/TEAMS depending upon the course providers preference. I have also delivered the Motorway Awareness Course and what was called NDIS (now Safe and Considerate Driving (SCD) courses but Just do speed from the comfort of home and only on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
RobinBHM
Established Member
I’ve done 3 speed awareness courses now.
I must book the next one soon….
I must book the next one soon….
XH558
Established Member
Brilliant, they are refresher courses. I've seen folk three times also in my career. Met members of my family, distant cousins, family of former colleagues, parents of former pupils that I taught to drive too. Famous folk too. Usually we have a laugh and a chuckle along the way as its a much better atmosphere and people remember more stuff when they are enjoying themselves.My current contract runs until July 2026. At that point i'm out of it.
niemeyjt
Established Member
In our mirrors was one very white knuckled old lady, still in the middle lane, hands still at ten to two who wasn't quite sure what had happened.
So, maybe someone can give a definitive answer (I cannot find in HC) - what is the actual law on overtaking on the inside when encountering a CLOD?
XH558
Established Member
We over take slower traffic on its right unless on a one way street as overtaking on either side is permitted.
On motorways we overtake on the right (Rule 267) unless rule 268 applies.
Hope that helps.
The offence of undertaking came off the statute book in about 1988.
On motorways we overtake on the right (Rule 267) unless rule 268 applies.
Hope that helps.
The offence of undertaking came off the statute book in about 1988.
If the traffic on a motorway slows down in the outside lane ( mistakenly referred to as the fast lane) then doesn’t the traffic in the inside lane and the middle lane undertake the traffic in the outside lane by default, same thing on a dual carriageway if someone in the outer lane waits to turns right and the traffic behind them backs up and slows or stops completely.??? Is this legal to do ??
XH558
Established Member
Motorways (253 to 274)
Rules for motorways, including rules for signals, joining the motorway, driving on the motorway, lane discipline, overtaking, stopping and leaving the motorway. A number of the rules for motorways also apply to other high-speed roads.A number of the rules for motorways also apply to other high-speed roads. Many other Rules apply to motorway driving, either wholly or in part: Rules 46, 57, 83 to 126, 130 to 134 , 139, 144, 146 to 151, 160, 161, 219, 221 to 222, 225, 226 to 237, 274 to 278, 280 and 281 to 290.
Lane discipline (rules 264 to 266),
Rule 264
Keep in the left lane unless overtaking.- If you are overtaking, you should return to the left lane when it is safe to do so (see also Rules 267 and 268).
- Be aware of emergency services, traffic officers, recovery workers and other people or vehicles stopped on the hard shoulder or in an emergency area. If you are driving in the left lane, and it is safe to do so, you should move into the adjacent lane to create more space between your vehicle and the people and stopped vehicles.
Rule 265
The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving- any vehicle drawing a trailer
- a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter
- a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes
- a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver
- a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight not exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter.
Rule 266
Approaching a junction. Look well ahead for signals, signs and road markings. Direction signs may be placed over the road. If you need to, you should change lanes well ahead of a junction. At some junctions, a lane may lead directly off the road. Only get in that lane if you wish to go in the direction indicated by signs or road markings.Overtaking (rules 267 to 268), Hide
Rule 267
Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right. You should- check your mirrors
- take time to judge the speeds correctly
- make sure that the lane you will be joining is sufficiently clear ahead and behind
- take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area to verify the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror
- remember that traffic may be coming up behind you very quickly. Check all your mirrors carefully. Look out for motorcyclists. When it is safe to do so, signal in plenty of time, then move out
- ensure you do not cut in on the vehicle you have overtaken
- be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.
Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.I think your post is best answered by rule 268. Yes, you would end up passing them on the left but they are prescribed circumstances. I doubt that any offence is committed unless your manoeuvre is carless or dangerous .
Yes this is how I understand it , as long as I’m not constantly changing lanes and not leaving a slower moving lane to gain an advantage then swapping lanes to and fro , I see this a lot and it’s infuriating as it just adds to the already congested lanes. Thanks for the clarification.
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