Saw stop

[Trevanion]

Has anybody seen the new Festool-Sawstop collaboration?

[youtube]6DWVdcmRD44[/youtube]

 

[Inspector]

The parent company of Festool bought SawStop last year so it was inevitable there would be new products. Maybe they will put the technology on mitre saws down the road.

Pete

 

[AJB Temple]

I think it's a good idea. I would buy it.

 

[shed9]

At last, technology that will finally prevent all those needless woodwork based hotdog accidents.

 

[Jacob]

I'd buy one except two push sticks does it better and cheaper (saving your fingers that is, not nicking sausages skin deep.)

 

[Trevanion]

It would be interesting to know which band tends to hurt themselves more with a table saw, is it the site carpenters, or workshop joiners, or is it the hobby woodworker?

 

[shed9]

It would be interesting to know which band tends to hurt themselves more with a table saw, is it the site carpenters, or workshop joiners, or is it the hobby woodworker?

I would have thought statistically it would be hobby workers who make up the numbers but how many 'per capita' is not something I would expect to likely be captured.

 

[AJB Temple]

Jacob is sort of right but my view is that I use all the guards and push sticks, but distractions can happen so why not have the additional safety?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob is sort of right but my view is that I use all the guards and push sticks, but distractions can happen so why not have the additional safety?

Because its effin expensive, you need it for every machine, it's mechanical so can fail, it can be switched on/off so it's not silly person proof.
But mainly because with a bit of practice you get into the push stick habit and your fingers never go near the blade (or spindle). It becomes second nature.
Push sticks also give you better control of the workpiece - mainly extended reach, and/or risk free pressure close to the cutter.
You can do things safely with push sticks which you wouldn't even attempt with hands alone. e.g. short pieces; if it goes wrong you may wreck the workpiece or the push stick but your fingers stay well out of the way at all times.
It was somebody on here who put me on to the two push stick habit and I'm grateful!

 

[Lons]

Interesting one this and I kind of agree that it shouldn't be needed if you concentrate 100% of the time and use the correct push sticks but I also agree that it's very easy to get distracted, my missus did that to me one day when I was using the tablesaw by yelling dinner was ready until I told her off and explained the potential consequences.

The fact that they're "effin expensive" is completely irrelevant as either you can afford / justify them or you can't and if you can and decide that they are useful as an additional safety precaution then I see nothing at all wrong with that even though I wouldn't personally buy one as I'm perfectly happy with my push sticks.

Neither can I accept that it would necessarily make anyone more reckless when using machinery, those people are going to do so anyway and having one might just save fingers or a hand and make that person realise they've had a close call.

Technology making drivers more reckless? Doubt that as again they're going to do it anyway just maybe crash sooner so do we say those drivers shouldn't wear a seat belt or cyclists don't need crash helmets? If ABS, ABD, 4wd, collision pre sensor etc saves even one life then it's all worthwhile, if a saw stop saves one nasty accident then ditto imo.

 

[Jacob]

Just a query - we've seen the sausage demo many times. Does each demo entail a new blade etc? I read somewhere that it works but destructively - you can't just switch back on. Maybe they've improved it?

 

[AJB Temple]

Jacob - I am not arguing. However, I am not a full time woodworker. I have two workshop (one being my large kitchen build) and a 3 year old and a 6 year old running around along with a wife who gets my attention whenever she wants. So distractions are plentiful and I don't mind paying for extra safety. Sawn off fingers are hard to replace.

I've seen a few accidents in my time: grinder stations, angle grinders., stone cutters, chain saws, falling off towers, bandsaw cuts, circular saw kick back and multiple electric shocks. Almost all from supposed professionals.

I expect you are super safe. But I am fallible.

 

[Trevanion]

Just a query - we've seen the sausage demo many times. Does each demo entail a new blade etc? I read somewhere that it works but destructively - you can't just switch back on. Maybe they've improved it?

New blade and cartridge from what I've seen. I think if you send the cartridge back to Sawstop and they prove it was finger related they'll send you a new one.

 

[Jacob]

....
I expect you are super safe. But I am fallible.

So is Saw-stop.
It's mechanical and all machines can fail.
It's switchable on or off and may be left off accidentally.
If it goes off accidentally (damp wood etc) the cost and time taken to replace the blade etc will be a big deterrent to using it again
You won't have it on all machines (other saws, spindle etc) so you still need to get up to speed with push sticks.
Once you've done that you won't need Sawstop.
I can see it's going to sell in small numbers - somebody might make some money. That's the problem, nobody would ever get rich by promoting push sticks.

 

[Lons]

It's mechanical and all machines can fail.

People fail as well, probably much more often than machines in which case it might save some fingers.

It's switchable on or off and may be left off accidentally.

An earlier post suggests you have to purposefully switch it off as by default it's on but in any event that's up to the individual just like wearing safety specs etc.

If it goes off accidentally (damp wood etc) the cost and time taken to replace the blade etc will be a big deterrent to using it again

Again up to the individual and no different to any other decision. If you crash the car does the cost of repairs stop you driving again just in case. :roll: Do the saw stops have a history of going off in damp wood? haven't seen any issues.

You won't have it on all machines (other saws, spindle etc) so you still need to get up to speed with push sticks.Once you've done that you won't need Sawstop.

I haven't seen anyone on here suggest it replaces other safety measures. Anyone who doesn't learn to operate a machine safely shouldn't be using it in the first place.

I can see it's going to sell in small numbers - somebody might make some money..

Festool must think differently but then what experience do their development guys have in comparison to yours!

I'm of similar opinion to you Jacob in that I'm happy with push sticks, have at least a dozen around the machines but what on earth is wrong with anyone who chooses to buy as an additional safety measure? Their money, decision not yours or mine.

PS
I assume your information comes from google and not personal use?

PPS, from a article

In short, I can see why Festool wanted to acquire SawStop. It’s a good play. Sawstop had just under 40 million USD in sales revenue in 2016, and TTS earned EUR 580 million (~655 million USD).

 

[Trevanion]

Happened to get an email from Felder about Ligna 2019 and a little accompanying video of what was there. I saw that now Felder have their own form of Sawstop technology in some of their saws:

https://www.felder-group.com/fg-en/pcs.html

[youtube]JyJcrUtQo28[/youtube]

It would be interesting to see how they come up with this system to skirt around sawstops patents, unless there's some form of collaboration going on. I'm guessing it will be an optional extra for all of the saws down the line, not just the Format4s.

 

[Doug71]

Happened to get an email from Felder about Ligna 2019 and a little accompanying video of what was there. I saw that now Felder have their own form of Sawstop technology in some of their saws:

https://www.felder-group.com/fg-en/pcs.html

[youtube]JyJcrUtQo28[/youtube]

It would be interesting to see how they come up with this system to skirt around sawstops patents, unless there's some form of collaboration going on. I'm guessing it will be an optional extra for all of the saws down the line, not just the Format4s.

Their is a discussion about it and a few more videos on Festool Owners Group

http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-too ... ct-system/

 

[Shrubby]

I posted earlier in this thread, a consortium of European manufacturers and IFW Stuttgart have been developing an infra red based system for a long time

 

[Jacob]

Apparently a consortium of wizards deep in a cave somewhere have been developing a simple device which not only makes "saw stop" completely redundant, also is much more reliable, usable immediately on nearly all machines, increases reach and control over the workpiece, just about eliminates risk of harm to the handler, costs pennies. Only problem found so far is that you need two of them.

 

[Nick Laguna UK]

I can see it's going to sell in small numbers - somebody might make some money..

Festool must think differently but then what experience do their development guys have in comparison to yours!

It certainly had the crowds watching at Ligna - they demo'd with a bratwurst of course & every 30mins or so a Festool guy with a microphone and large screen did the demo - Ligna is mainly dealer sell in focused for most manufacturers. My stand was opposite Festool and when there were no demo's the looping music on their big screen was like an earworm for 5 days..

PPS, from a article

In short, I can see why Festool wanted to acquire SawStop. It’s a good play. Sawstop had just under 40 million USD in sales revenue in 2016, and TTS earned EUR 580 million (~655 million USD).

My American colleague told me they paid $100 mill for Sawstop. The patent also expires in a year or so they said..

Felder showing their system in real life keine bratwurst here

https://www.facebook.com/feldergroupusa ... 994655619/