question about dw125 RAS

[urbanarcher]

I just won a saw on ebay and was just wanting to confirm something. I have seen the DW125 with and without the full bottom guard, Were some of these tools sold with just the top guard and anti kickback fingers and some with the full lower guard and levers? (in the manual listed as the European guard) or is it that some have in time had the lover guard removed and lost?
In other words what parts should i be expecting to find as a minimum with the saw when i collect?
the saw i bought currently looks like this:

Any help Appreciated

Ryan

Hope this is in the right section of the forum if not please move mods.

 

[bosshogg]

Those bosses with holes were used to carry spring loaded arms which aide the lower guard parts which are missing

this is my machines parts showing the main guard c/w bosses and the various other parts inc. the bottom guards. The old machines, those with one part guards, had a system of rotate, allowing the guard to be brought in close contact at the leading edge of cut, there bye protecting the operator, the rear of the blade becoming more exposed in reaction...no regs brought about the change in or about the seventies. Up to that point guards were almost superfluous, the ones in our shop being on a swivel base could be rotated out of the road, or removed to get better visual and access to the cut...in other words allowing choice. The regs came in making this illegal and making the use of guards mandatory, employers could be charged, fined for flouting said regs, the stipulation being all moving parts of the blade must be practically covered if not in direct contact with the work...or words to that effect...bosshogg

Better safe than sorry. Anonymous (hammer)

 

[urbanarcher]

so bosshog does it look like the saw i have purchased is missing the lower guard parts then? or more likely that its a rotator style guard? to me from the images it looks like the guard may well just be missing. so that means some very careful fingers luckily my workshop is just a home one not governed by regs yet!
Will not having the guard cause any problems if safe methods of use are applied? as you might of guessed I've not used a RAS much before just a mitre saw.

Thanks for the info i didn't know about the tilting guards that's new to me!

Well I'm off to do a pick-up now by the looks of it.

 

[JWF]

I have a similar machine and would not entertain using it without the lower guard, fingers are not easily replaced. I'm sure a search on the net will come up with spare parts for the RAS.

Regards
John

 

[studders]

so bosshog does it look like the saw i have purchased is missing the lower guard parts then?

Definitely. However.... having used a similar machine I felt the lower guard gave a false sense of safety because should your hand be in the path of the blade or should it slip toward it, the design would not stop you getting cut; the guard would simply lift up. That, together with it getting in the way when adjusting and obscuring the view when cutting, was my reason for removing the lower half of mine. Seeing the lower half of the blade spinning actually made me more wary of it. A personal choice though, not a recommendation.

 

[kirkpoore1]

so bosshog does it look like the saw i have purchased is missing the lower guard parts then?

Definitely. However.... having used a similar machine I felt the lower guard gave a false sense of safety because should your hand be in the path of the blade or should it slip toward it, the design would not stop you getting cut; the guard would simply lift up. ....

I think these RAS guards are there to give you that "Oh SH*T!" feeling so you yank your hand out of the way, rather than stopping you from actually cutting yourself. They will stop you from sticking your hand in from the side.

The bad part is that they don't always work that smoothly. My '64 saw's guards sometimes snag on the fence or even the work when moving the head backwards for the next cut--not exactly safe itself. I've adjusted it, lubed it, replaced some parts, and done everything I can, but it's just not that great a design. Yours is different, but maybe not better.

Kirk

 

[studders]

My '64 saw's guards sometimes snag on the fence or even the work when moving the head backwards for the next cut--not exactly safe itself.

Kirk

The design of the one I had, same as Op's, often got stuck on any previous cut in the work piece that happened to be 'just at the right' (wrong) place. Could be quite dangerous sometimes and another reason I took it off.

 

[bosshogg]

I agree with Studders 100% - the view of the spinning blade should be as good a deterrent as one should wish for, and I don't think for one minute that the lower guard is any real protection. As I said in the first reply, these guards were designed to comply with the regs at the time, actually more likely complying with the wording rather than the spirit of the regs. To be perfectly honest, the old one piece rotating guard, however un-complying, was technically better than that that replaced it, this of course is only my opinion. So far as I know, no one has designed an improved guard for these machines, much the pity...bosshogg

No man is an island :|

 

[powertools]

From the pics the machine looks in good condition and is the same model that I have that I purchased new in about 1982 and still use to this day.
As others have said I dont think that the lower guard is that important but I would expand on that and say if you are going to use this as a rip saw then I think that it is a different matter it also looks as if the kick backs are missing. I am not scared of my machines but I would not do many things that the manual for the machine says you can do and I have never used it as a rip saw.
From the pics your first job is going to be to replace the bed and the fence inorder to make the saw accurate this requires some setting up that needs to be done in the correct order and takes a long time to get it spot on but is well worth the effort.
For cross cutting only the saw will be safe to use without the lower guard. That is only my opinion and others may know better.

 

[urbanarcher]

OK great I'll take all this info on board and use the machine safely, thanks for all the input. so what blades work well in these machines without breaking the bank as i am not making things on a grand scale right now. any recommendations?

 

[Streepips]

Absolutely agree with those that recommend removal of the lower guard. If you feel unsafe without this contraption in place you should not be using the saw because you do not understand how it works or know yet how dangerous situations arise on a RAS and if the lower guard gives you a sense of safety/ security then I assure you it is false. It will lift nicely to accommodate whatever it encounters.
If you want minimal clearance between the workpiece and your fingers then use the sliding slot where the guard is fixed to the machine and lower the guard so it just clears the work, thus leaving no room for fingers.
The anti kickback bar and pawls are only used for ripping operations and I doubt most people understand the saw well enough to confidently and safely undertake such so the presence or not of the kickback setup is in that case irrelevant.
The 125 is a decent unit, my second favourite after the 110. If you strip down the two models side by side you will see why that is.
As for blades I would aim for a thin kerf or you will be taxing the small power unit unnecessarily .

 

[kirkpoore1]

OK great I'll take all this info on board and use the machine safely, thanks for all the input. so what blades work well in these machines without breaking the bank as i am not making things on a grand scale right now. any recommendations?

Get a blade with a zero degree or negative degree hook. It will have less tendency to self-feed. Quality wise, most well known brands are OK. I don't know enough about the particular saw to say whether a thin kerf blade is worth getting, however.

Kirk

 

[Streepips]

1.25 horsepower is all you need to consider in choosing thin kerf.

 

[powertools]

You have had answers about the blade but any advice is useless without knowing what you intend to cut and how you intened to cut it.
Assuming that you want to keep your front teeth and you will only be cross cutting and that the machine is for hobby use and will make say 50 cuts per week you may aswell buy any buget quality fine tooth tct blade you will never see any difference between that and a high end expensive blade that will do 50 cuts an hour.
The only thing I would say is buy a blade with the correct hole size ie. 5/8" or 16mm and not one with a reducing bush as the washers on each side of the blade on the DW125 are dished and will not keep the bush in place.

 

[jimi43]

Not being sarcastic at all and a very serious question...why would anyone in their right mind use one of these things?

I have read so many threads...here and on other sites that go on about how dangerous they are..how a blade flying towards you is inherently unsafe....how only experts with a degree in risk taking would attempt ripping....and it goes on.

I just wonder...again very seriously...what are the benefits that are so huge that they outweigh these risks?

Those of you that have them...seem to love them...and one great buddy of mine swears by his and still has most of his appendages....so...why?

Jim

 

[powertools]

Can't realy answer that other than to say I love mine.
It is set between 2 benches and is level with the tops and flush with the fronts and seems to take up no room at all as when not in use the bed just forms part of a long bench.
I can think of no better way of cutting a long length of wood into short lengths while being supported by the bench over its full length.
As for ripping that's another story.

 

[kirkpoore1]

I just wonder...again very seriously...what are the benefits that are so huge that they outweigh these risks?

Those of you that have them...seem to love them...and one great buddy of mine swears by his and still has most of his appendages....so...why?

Jim

First, let me say I don't rip with mine--I have a tablesaw for that.
Second: There is a difference between a real RAS and a plastique-and-aluminum POS that won't hold it's settings. With radial arm saws, you get what you pay for.
Third: A RAS will do many things, but most of them not well. They used to be sold with a gazillion attachments, all but a handful of them stupid and/or dangerous.

A good RAS excels at precision cross-cutting. This includes repeated cuts after setting up a stop, cuts to a fixed depth (dadoes, etc), bevels, and miter cuts. For one-off cuts, it's very fast (mark your piece and cut to the line).

If you pay attention to what you're doing, it is safe. You have to have safe habits and don't take shortcuts. Use the right blade. Don't make unsupported cuts--keep the work against the fence.

Kirk

 

[jimi43]

These are the answers I usually get.......and yet I remain confused.

I have a sliding mitre saw which I use for cross cutting. It has stops...clamps to hold against the fence and surface and will cut pretty wide panels and all feasible lengths/depths of stock. The only thing it won't cut is panels wider than the reach...but I use the tablesaw for that anyway.

So...again...my question is, why use an inherently dangerous piece of gear that is known to be lethal if not used correctly as opposed to a fairly safe sliding mitre...which at least chucks chips out of the back?

I take all the points about safe practice...but surely that applies to ALL powertools?

Jim

 

[Streepips]

I have covered the topic of ripping on a RAS a few times on here, its OK if you know how to set it up ( which most people do not) and you use common sense and good work practices.
However, I have a cast iron 3HP sliding beam type table saw which I use for ripping, crosscutting and general dimensioning, I also have a more than capable Makita bevel mitre saw which will crosscut to 11" Plus handheld circular saws which some advocate as ideal for ripping and crosscutting in lieu of heavier fixed machinery.
But I still have an old RAS. and a fully refurbed one under the bench.

Why?
Because I like them. First machine I ever had and I learned to use it well enough to make a living with it. Apart from a router and a morticer it was the only machine I had for five years.
When I got a Scheppach 2500 TS I sold the RAS.......Really missed it and although I did not need one really I bought another.
Just feels right to have it sat in the workshop with its own 20 foot table........Ideal for crosscutting long lengths as they come into the workshop, making tenons with, light crosscutting if I have the table saw set up for a run, just comes in handy, behaves itself and earns its keep

 

[jimi43]

Excellent reply!

I love emotion in tools....fully understand it...

Thank you.

Jim