I don't like him.
Paul, his version of sharpening
- Thread starter pe2dave
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Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I’m sure he’ll be gutted to hear that
Ollie78
Established Member
I am not offended by this little article or by Paul himself particularly, let him sell his books and hopefully some of his viewers/readers will learn something and enjoy woodworking.
I am more a pragmatic as I need to earn a living and could not justify being a "handtool hipster" like that Chris Schwarz bloke. I do it the most efficient way possible with machinery and hand work.
Ollie
I am more a pragmatic as I need to earn a living and could not justify being a "handtool hipster" like that Chris Schwarz bloke. I do it the most efficient way possible with machinery and hand work.
Ollie
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Exactly. And an emphasis on using basic low cost tools. Breath of fresh air.
OTOH I had a neighbour decided to take up woodwork, read a few mags and shot out to buy his very first tools; a router and a dovetail jig!
No chance. Not even a torsion box!
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Jacob, you misunderstand that cheap tools and machine bashing is his shtick, fuelled by the desire to sell something (video, books, lessons, tools) for real money (hypocritical since he talks of cheap woodworking). His angle is aimed at maintaining an army of followers, and his Gospel of St Paul lyrics are a poorly disguised display of narcissism.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Regards from Perth
Derek
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It’s probably because he’s times served and knows what he’s talking about, quite rare amongst these so called experts.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Oh dear he's really hit a nerve!
Two key thing he does, which easily get overlooked, is to talk of traditional sharpening and of the traditional bench. These have been more or less written out of the record by todays gurus of fantasy woodwork and are now met by utter disbelief! He's obviously on the right track!
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Jacob, there are a lot of things about Sellers I like. I also think that he has generally been good for hobby woodworking. I do not criticise his woodworking methods, even his sharpening method. Even the misinformation he throws around a great deal (I know enough to know this). I just find him, as a person, to be someone you need to understand is not what he seems.
I might add that I think I know why you defend Sellers. On one hand you share a sharpening method, which you spent years defending here. You also seem to share a focus on keeping luxury out of the workshop, but I think that Sellers differs from you in that you use a wider range of power tools.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I might add that I think I know why you defend Sellers. On one hand you share a sharpening method, which you spent years defending here. You also seem to share a focus on keeping luxury out of the workshop, but I think that Sellers differs from you in that you use a wider range of power tools.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
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johnnyb
Established Member
it's interesting to compare Paul with Jim kingshot. Jim died in 2002 but left a great legacy of handtool videos. he was a pleasant and engaging character. when you finished watching you knew what you were doing. they were technical but he had nice character. you came away thinking you'd had a lesson with a master of his craft.
paul I can't get past the first five minutes. I have made versions of his bench with beginners and refused to use cls both times. the time investment in making one was much more deserving of better wood. I guess he's trying for material accessibility.
paul I can't get past the first five minutes. I have made versions of his bench with beginners and refused to use cls both times. the time investment in making one was much more deserving of better wood. I guess he's trying for material accessibility.
johnnyb
Established Member
btw where was he apprenticed....the 18th century. he's from Stockport where I believe they had electricity in the 1980s.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
It's intended as an entry level low cost bench, using materials bought off the shelf, which is very useful particularly for people who don't already have a bench.
The basic design is good and if anybody wants to use better wood they are free to do so.
Or perhaps use the Sellers bench for knocking up your first turbo-torsion-box-MFT!
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johnnyb
Established Member
I agree the basic design is good.the design is not his though and the bits he added ( using cls) is not clever. but I'm in agreement with Jacob if it gets folk woodbashin
g it can only be good. and my personal " nails on a chalkboard" when he speaks should be ignored.
can't imagine he would lower himself to even read what's on this forum though.
g it can only be good. and my personal " nails on a chalkboard" when he speaks should be ignored.
can't imagine he would lower himself to even read what's on this forum though.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
It is and it isn't. It's a version of the trad bench which used to be found in every UK woodwork shop, from school to major industry.
The sharpening isn't his either - it's more or less what everybody used to do from the stone age onwards. The gadget salesmen only got in on the act fairly recently.
johnnyb
Established Member
one thing I find is probably more fundamental( and rarely touched on) is what makes handtools pleasant indeed possible to use effectively is air dried wood. I even attribute the rise of fancy irons and sharpening regimes an attempt to capture what's missing. the ease of working air dried wood. using it before the lignin sets hard but when it's dry. it's simple but also spawns solutions that weren't necessary before kilning.
it's not an exaggeration to say beech is like a completely different wood after it's kilned. soft and buttery when air dried hard and unyielding after the kiln. the solution seems easy but isn't because wood going into heated houses will shrink and buckle.
it's not an exaggeration to say beech is like a completely different wood after it's kilned. soft and buttery when air dried hard and unyielding after the kiln. the solution seems easy but isn't because wood going into heated houses will shrink and buckle.
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johnnyb
Established Member
the late David savage said ( after spending time with Alan peters) I regret not stockpiling quality air dried wood. basically we're working with a fundamentally different material.
Paul Sellers is one of the reasons I got into woodworking and tbh I don't understand why he's controversial here. He found a target audience, the beginner who doesn't have or can't commit large sums to what may turn out to be a dead end, and introduced them to using cheap methods of getting work done, e.g. poor man's router. Initially all the videos I found had £1k+ power tools or massively kitted out workshops, a total put off. His approach was a breath of fresh air, to be told it can be done with a restored £10 hand plane.
Yes, he tries to flog his book (why shouldn't he?) and yes, he is proud of his router kit (why shouldn't he be?). He's created a kit that's relatively easy to put together and a fraction of the cost of buying one on ebay. Sure it doesn't have the bells and whistles as other premium ones, but again, it suits his target audience.
It's as if some here are averse to him making money off his skills.
I am not a subscriber to his woodworking masterclasses, but having seen snippets online, it seems like a useful resource for structured classes to do at your own pace and build up skills while actually making things.
Yes, he tries to flog his book (why shouldn't he?) and yes, he is proud of his router kit (why shouldn't he be?). He's created a kit that's relatively easy to put together and a fraction of the cost of buying one on ebay. Sure it doesn't have the bells and whistles as other premium ones, but again, it suits his target audience.
It's as if some here are averse to him making money off his skills.
I am not a subscriber to his woodworking masterclasses, but having seen snippets online, it seems like a useful resource for structured classes to do at your own pace and build up skills while actually making things.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Hmmmmm....
I like Mr Sellers. I dont agree with everything he says, but I dont agree with everything my mother says either.
Sellers is probably disliked by people who are in the business of selling new tools because Sellers often says you dont need to buy new tools and his negative view on bevel up planes. The bevel up plane is promoted as being a better plane than bevel down planes so people have a reason to now buy a new plane.
Sellers is not shy to mention that bevelup planes have no advantage over bevel down planes and in fact are problematic(increased wear bevel and I think less overall stiffness of the plane since there is less iron around the frog).
Sellers is probably disliked by people who are in the business of selling new tools because Sellers often says you dont need to buy new tools and his negative view on bevel up planes. The bevel up plane is promoted as being a better plane than bevel down planes so people have a reason to now buy a new plane.
Sellers is not shy to mention that bevelup planes have no advantage over bevel down planes and in fact are problematic(increased wear bevel and I think less overall stiffness of the plane since there is less iron around the frog).
johnnyb
Established Member
the reason no one likes him we've established is not because of his woodwork or his enthusiasm or his traditional approach or because we're trying to sell new tools.
it's because he's selling dishonesty packed as down to earth. he's the maharishi of woodwork. pay me and I'll show you the true path. which we all know is my method of sharpening.
it's because he's selling dishonesty packed as down to earth. he's the maharishi of woodwork. pay me and I'll show you the true path. which we all know is my method of sharpening.
