Joiners: How do you size a door SKETCHUP DRAWING OF JIG

[Graham Orm]

I do a lot and it's easy money, hence trying to speed things up and make it easier still.

 

[Jacob]

You can't use a tape measure and get it spot on first time, or at least I can't. what is the frame is out of square, your dimensions will be right but the door still won't fit. So many variables.

My own process to date is having marked the door with a small cross to identify the inside and top hinge side, turn the door upside down and offer it up in the open position so that I can see exactly where it meets the reveal. Do this on both sides, switching the door over for each stile. Then flip it back the right way up and whilst trying to hold it against the hinge stile scribe the angle for the bottom cut.
Then cut to the bottom to length.
Then go through a hit and miss process with the lock edge taking into account any bow's in the both the styles shown up by checking with a long level.

This all takes longer than it needs to and is hard graft.

I meant to ask why you find it difficult and this seems to be the answer!
You seem to be making a lot of work for yourself and I don't see your device helping much either.
Frinstance you don't need to "try and hold it" you merely hold it in place (no effort!) with a wedge or two. I usually have several kicking about on the floor - say ex 2" about 12" long and tapering from 1/8" to 1 1/2". They also double for the door prop device (see above).
Scribing shouldn't be hit and miss and I don't see why you'd need a long level - the scribe marks follow any bows or deviations.
The whole point of offering up and scribing is that it's fool proof and accurate. Though you may still need a bit of edge trimming in situ after hanging it.
I've no idea why you have to flip it over so many times - it must be exhausting.

I think you need more procedure and less gadget!

PS useful tip - you get the thing hanging perfectly except the head has a slightly tapered gap. As long as the gap isn't too big you can rectify this without taking the door off - just take off the arris to make a straight shadow line. Block plane and paring chisel. If it's binding it might be fixable by inserting a bit of sandpaper and opening and closing a few times.

 

[Graham Orm]

What do you wedge it against Jacob, and how do you scribe it, you're on the wrong side of the door.

 

[Jacob]

What do you wedge it against Jacob, and how do you scribe it, you're on the wrong side of the door.

Wedge the hanging side of door up under the head of the frame with the wedges on the floor and the door as closed as far as it will go. Scribe it from the other side by fixing a temporary knob, just a big nail will do (mark to be covered by the door plate later), so you can pull it towards you.

 

[Graham Orm]

What do you wedge it against Jacob, and how do you scribe it, you're on the wrong side of the door.

Wedge the hanging side of door up under the head of the frame with the wedges on the floor and the door as closed as far as it will go. Scribe it from the other side by fixing a temporary knob, just a big nail will do (mark to be covered by the door plate later), so you can pull it towards you.

But the door is ALWAYS too tall Jacob, it won't go under the head. If it did, when you've wedged it in place assuming you can how do you then get to the other side to mark it?

 

[Jacob]

What do you wedge it against Jacob, and how do you scribe it, you're on the wrong side of the door.

Wedge the hanging side of door up under the head of the frame with the wedges on the floor and the door as closed as far as it will go. Scribe it from the other side by fixing a temporary knob, just a big nail will do (mark to be covered by the door plate later), so you can pull it towards you.

But the door is ALWAYS too tall Jacob, it won't go under the head.

You saw/plane a bit off. :roll:
Not too much as you may have to trim it more if the head or the floor isn't square. Measure it first

If it did, when you've wedged it in place assuming you can how do you then get to the other side to mark it?

You wedge it from the side you are scribing, obviously.
It's handy to have a pinch bar or similar so you can pinch the door tight up as you wedge it and vice versa as you take the wedges away.
It's handy to have biggish wedges so you can manoeuvre them about with your foot.
The home made wedge prop thing (see above) is much better than a bought one, first - it's free and takes about 10 minutes to make a pair from scrap, second it spreads the load and is less likely to mark, third the wedge on it's own is useful.

PS or you can get the head and hanging stile right and hang the door (with just one screw per hinge) then scribe the lock side and the bottom.
You can do fine adjustments with one screw - you put another screw in one of the other holes but offset to push the hinge the way you want to move it, then loosen screw 1, tighten screw 2 and it pushes the hinge over. Bradawl a new hole for screw 1 so it doesn't push it back.

 

[Mar_mite]

Offer the door up to the hinge side, get that right. Then simply measure across, cut the door so it goes into the opening, put it in place, mark the door all round where needed. Plane down to line. If it's too tall, cut it. No need to get to the other side at all. The only time I'd mark from the other side it if I knew the hing side and head were bang on, I could hinge it and swing it then put a screw where the handle will go and pull it towards me.

 

[Graham Orm]

You saw/plane a bit off. :roll:

That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from! :roll:

And as far as a pinch bar and a and holding it to with a nail from the wrong side of the door with one hand while you try and draw an accurate cut line with the other hand...............I'll leave that with you.

 

[Jacob]

You saw/plane a bit off. :roll:

That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from! :roll:

If it's too long there is no way of avoiding this!

And as far as a pinch bar and a and holding it to with a nail from the wrong side of the door with one hand while you try and draw an accurate cut line with the other hand...............I'll leave that with you.

You pull the door close and hold it (temporary knob/nail etc). Pinch it up tight with pinch bar/chisel/whatever. Then insert wedges underneath. You are now free with both hands!

 

[Graham Orm]

You saw/plane a bit off. :roll:

That's exactly what I'm trying to get away from! :roll:

If it's too long there is no way of avoiding this!

And as far as a pinch bar and a and holding it to with a nail from the wrong side of the door with one hand while you try and draw an accurate cut line with the other hand...............I'll leave that with you.

You pull the door close and hold it (temporary knob/nail etc). Pinch it up tight with pinch bar/chisel/whatever. Then insert wedges underneath. You are now free with both hands!

You'll have to come and show me Jacob! I know exactly what you mean, it's just not how I'd choose to do it. Wait till I've got my gadget going, and we'll see if I've re-invented the wheel.

 

[Mark-numbers]

I know this is an old thread, but thought I would give you the modern take on how to do it ;-)

Place the door flat on some trestles ready for marking out.

Mark out the middle of your doorframe on the header of the frame itself.

Set up your laser to this mark

Measure from this laser to LHS and RHS at the top - transfer to door.

Measure from this last to LHS and RHS at the bottom - transfer to door.

Then from these marks take off 2mm from each one.

Strike a line between these marks (you actually don't need to do this - see next step)

Place track on these marks.

Saw off required material from door using tracksaw.

Sand edges with sander then fit as you would normally do.

I actually fit the head of the door first using a large sliding bevel then follow the procedures above.

I hope this helps someone or at least gives another take on how to fit a door.

 

[No skills]

That's different, I spose you could achieve a similar result with a plumbob hung from centre of door frame.

 

[Jelly]

That's different, I spose you could achieve a similar result with a plumbob hung from centre of door frame.

Indeed, the thing there is the trust in both measurements and tool accuracy is very high... I don't doubt it works, but there is definitely room in there to cock up catastrophically at least once in a while, and doorframes where the frame bellies in in the middle would still be an issue.

 

[AJB Temple]

I had this problem in a barn conversion where the door frames had to accommodate some variable angles and dimensions to look good. Every door was a slightly different dimension, but they were all simple pledged oak and so easy to adjust I just made a simple template consisting of an adjustable cross (think Scottish flag stood on end) made of wood with slots cut in so I could adjust the angle and lengths. Butterfly nuts and bolts provided the adjustment. On each corner I fixed a plywood 90 degree angle piece to fit into each corner of the frame. These we also adjustable for rotation and numbered (number 1 was always top left). If the frame was out of square, I would just mark notes on the relevant corner with a pencil, that I could run out. When I got tired of that I used sticky address labels and just ripped them off an applied new ones when I moved onto a different frame. Each frame was checked for bow with an aluminium straight edge. I also took accurate measurements of the frame inside lengths and diagonals to be on the safe side.

You have to take care not to knock the jig when lugging it back to the working area, but then I just used the jig as a marker guide on each door, checked the lengths and diagonals and then deducted my clearance allowance using dividers and the straight edge and cut the doors. My better half and I fitted 17 oak doors using this method and it took us four days. Worked out fine. For just a single door or two I would use the door as a template though rather than making a jig.

In my case the doors had to be rustic so hand made (not by me) wrought iron hinges were though nailed before we hung the doors and the stile end was fitted using wedges to hold the door firmly in the frame.

This was a few years ago and I was surprised at the time that there was not a framing jig on the market. They are available now but I have only seen them in Germany, not the UK.

 

[Mark-numbers]

You say that, but I haven't cocked any up yet - Yes there is an issue for frames bellying out, however its just a case of checking the measurements from the laser line at various points on the frame, as a general rule this works beautifully and gets you swinging doors very accurately very quickly.

 

[Wildman]

There is a simple way that many forget and that is scribing using a joggle stick as used by boat builders to scribe a bulkhead.
http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/joggle-stick.html
I hope that helps dead easy really for a door.

 

[AJB Temple]

I had totally forgotten about joggle sticks! I was shown that in a boatyard years ago and it went in one eye and out the other. Very useful idea though. In fact the whole site is a good find.

 

[bugbear]

I had totally forgotten about joggle sticks! I was shown that in a boatyard years ago and it went in one eye and out the other. Very useful idea though. In fact the whole site is a good find.

They've been mentioned (rarely) on here. Also (slightly) more commonly known as "tick sticks".

The whole procedure is (much more) commonly known as "spiling".

(agreed about the site, great info)

BugBear