Invasion of US Capitol building
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Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
I suppose the answer to 1) depends on whether anyone was wearing a LBD.......
Absolutely not. The last time I saw fox news or MSNBC or anything like that without being somewhere that it was on TV (generally my parents or inlaws) was perhaps 2003. I don't know if there was an MSNBC back then, but there was CNN and cspan and F-N was the only pundit channel aside from the obvious liberal bias to news in general (registration in the US for news professionals is about 88% democrat -you can adjust for that).
When MSNBC came along or was at least popularized, it was a disappointment, and when CNN determined they would become a commentary channel instead of news, again, a disappointment. It just signaled that that type of commentary posing as news has become market dominant across the board. They're all tabloids at this point.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
and thus spake Michael Moore: "it shall come to pass.......etc"
Authorities on high alert across US as fears over far-right violence intensify
He does seem to be quickest off the mark!
Authorities on high alert across US as fears over far-right violence intensify
He does seem to be quickest off the mark!
I'll bet my prediction is more accurate, and I actually speculated something that would happen and not might (aside from my first comment that the crowd only got in the capitol because someone decided it was a better idea than starting a bigger confrontation. That turns out to be true, regardless of the reason they were allowed in).
My prediction was also that they'd staff up and the inauguration would occur as scheduled (it will) and in the long term, this will blow over (that'll take longer to materialize).
That doesn't stoke fear, which tends to not be very popular from pundits, because it gives people no reason to tune in later. You may not understand what I mean by that, but it's straight from the book of fire and brimstone pastors and professional wrestling promoters.
billw
The Tattooed One
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
I keep having to google things to find out what they mean. One minute it's LBD (!) next it's McMahon.
Vince or Linda for president? She'd be more scary in a LBD.
Vince or Linda for president? She'd be more scary in a LBD.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
I think most of the people going into the capitol were unarmed. If an armed group on display went to the steps, I don't think the response would be as gentle.
As far as access, yes - I think security for the president is at a level that is not given for most other politicians. I don't know why that is, but I don't think there's any notion that it's that difficult for people to get in as protests against PPACA, disabled benefits, kavanaugh, etc, have all gone wherever they wanted and got arrested later. What has been interesting even in those is that when a nutball shows up yelling about whatever their cause is, the response is not really that quick. Why that is, I don't know, as inside the capitol there must be hundreds of armed officers.
When the kavanaugh hearings were going on, I saw a few snips of protestors, and my thought is that if I were in charge of the building, response would be instant. It wouldn't have to be nasty or overly violent, just instant to dissuade people from thinking that they can just go in and start yelling.
Never toured any of the branches of government, so no clue what they do to check over tour groups above and beyond metal detectors.
Clue me in on LBD - LBD is the acronym used here for a type of dementia.
billw
The Tattooed One
1400 Capitol police according to a WaPo article today, unspecified number of DC police (58 injured) who were the first reinforcements on scene. What it doesn't say is when they all arrived, but Sund has implied that Capitol police were fully deployed after the rally permit limit was raised from 5k to 30k attendees.
Tiny minority reportedly being looked at, like 10-15. The point I was making isn't that there was widespread siding with the rioters/insurrectionists but that people are being investigated for disciplinary offences in relation to not stopping them. No talk of disciplining the far greater number who did the opposite and fought really hard to keep them out. This suggests the orders were not to let them in.
I see the DOJ have said they are looking at charges of sedition.
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I think you're missing the point here. You can't give the police orders to ignore the laws - well, it does happen in some cases here like when sheriffs inform the public that there is a law on the book, but they won't be enforcing it. The reality is no real attempt was made to stop the group from entering or to try to match up to them with a greater force. If the same permit was filed again, a much larger force would oppose them.
Are you following what I'm saying? The individual officers still have to do their job, but if you don't staff them up further (until far later), you're avoiding escalating the conflict.
Contrast this with calling in the national guard on the 6th or 8th day of the BLM protests when the supposition was that they'd be heading to the capitol.
The account I read on another forum (haven't been back to it since) more or less said that they walked up to the entrance and said "we're unarmed and we're coming in and you're not going to stop us". He said there wasn't that much police resistance initially where he was. He was also on the side where the woman was shot and despite the initial reports, stated something along the lines of she was in the line of fire but not doing anything aggressive. I only read one paragraph post by him (I guess all of his social media and live streaming, etc was taken down, and it sounds like the police took everyones' phones, which is probably policy to avoid lawsuits if possible. If the police take your phones and erase them and later say "oops, looks like we were in the wrong", there's no real recourse).
I haven't seen a total estimate of the crowd - have you read? The permit size you mention is the first I saw of it. Early on someone said 100k, which couldn't have been right. Even if it's 30k, if the whole group decides they're headed for the door, the only thing you can do as officers to stop them is start shooting. It sounds like when the lady who got shot did get shot, everyone on that side of the group had a change of heart pretty quickly.
Are you following what I'm saying? The individual officers still have to do their job, but if you don't staff them up further (until far later), you're avoiding escalating the conflict.
Contrast this with calling in the national guard on the 6th or 8th day of the BLM protests when the supposition was that they'd be heading to the capitol.
The account I read on another forum (haven't been back to it since) more or less said that they walked up to the entrance and said "we're unarmed and we're coming in and you're not going to stop us". He said there wasn't that much police resistance initially where he was. He was also on the side where the woman was shot and despite the initial reports, stated something along the lines of she was in the line of fire but not doing anything aggressive. I only read one paragraph post by him (I guess all of his social media and live streaming, etc was taken down, and it sounds like the police took everyones' phones, which is probably policy to avoid lawsuits if possible. If the police take your phones and erase them and later say "oops, looks like we were in the wrong", there's no real recourse).
I haven't seen a total estimate of the crowd - have you read? The permit size you mention is the first I saw of it. Early on someone said 100k, which couldn't have been right. Even if it's 30k, if the whole group decides they're headed for the door, the only thing you can do as officers to stop them is start shooting. It sounds like when the lady who got shot did get shot, everyone on that side of the group had a change of heart pretty quickly.
(personally, I think running up against law enforcement in the US is dumb, regardless of the circumstance. They have special legal standing, and the prosecutor's offices need their backing to make cases. Prosecutorial offices are quasi political, or in some larger jurisdictions - outright political.
There's plenty of evidence that when you make police nervous, people get shot. I wouldn't want to beat those people.
But before any of that, I didn't vote in the last election, so I'd have had no excuse to go complain about the results. I'm pretty satisfied for them, and I think Biden is the guy for the situation - a moderate who is pretty mild and reasonable. )
There's plenty of evidence that when you make police nervous, people get shot. I wouldn't want to beat those people.
But before any of that, I didn't vote in the last election, so I'd have had no excuse to go complain about the results. I'm pretty satisfied for them, and I think Biden is the guy for the situation - a moderate who is pretty mild and reasonable. )
There was a huge attempt from most officers. There's a mass of video evidence of the barrage they took trying to stop the rioter/insurrectionists getting in.
Really not how this panned out on the most part (one door seems to have been a notable exception).
By Sund's account, he wanted National Guard once the rally limit expanded but the heads of security for both houses (both also resigned) said they did not want National Guard there because it would look bad. Chief of the relevant National Guard has said they repeatedly offered their support and were declined by Sund.
There was at least one door where the police stood to either side of the corridor leading from the door, with one of them saying fairly unconvincingly 'no you can't come in' as the rioters all file past them. That was anything but typical though.
She was the first person to try to climb through the hole left after the people she was with had smashed glass in a door leading directly to the Speaker's lobby of the House. There are two videos around, one timed 3 minutes before showing many Reps in the Speaker's lobby lined on their way to their emergency hidey hole, the other of Babbitt being shot trying to get into that inner area. She got shot because it was the last line of defence.
There's an immense amount of video around. Loads of good work being put in to identify the cretins (and the FBI are encouraging that). Much of it by the good sort of anti-fascist (ie the ones who do what it says on the tin, rather than violent revolutionary anarchist/syndicalist/communist minority).
It was a 30k max permit. I don't think there were anything like that number of rioters/insurrectionists. Crowd sizes are notoriously impossible to estimate accurately, but the 5-10k range seems to get mentioned a lot by ex-LE types.
The reported quotes tonight from 'friends' are interesting.
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