Invasion of US Capitol building
- Thread starter El Barto
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Interesting theory, but it is not possible to square that with what Sund has been saying (with at least partial back up from the DC admin). Sounds more like either a screw up or sand in the cogs somewhere (which is basically what Sund is claiming). I do not think any one person's story should be taken as read when there is blame flying around to be deflected, but time and documents will out in the end. The suspensions and arrest of Capitol policemen is also interesting, implying that some of them were not following orders. Most fought like hell to keep the rioters out, which is also quite hard to square with your theory.
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I saw a news story this morning that they claimed administrative slowness was the reason for the lack of a response. I think that's a pretty fantastic story given that this was going on in the capitol. What nobody there wants, and you're right, i'm guessing at it - is to have their name attached to the idea that they didn't want an immediate response and then were frozen while guessing whether or not it was a good time to send in additional officers at the risk of creating a deadlier fight.
Not sure how many officers were at the capitol given the force there is 2300 according to google. 200? If 5 turn out to have not done their job in a middle of a mob, that's not exactly like the whole group stepping aside.
Not sure how many officers were at the capitol given the force there is 2300 according to google. 200? If 5 turn out to have not done their job in a middle of a mob, that's not exactly like the whole group stepping aside.
Mark Hancock
Established Member
Strangely find some comfort from this Colin Powell Interview
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
I think it was me! But point taken. How Necessary is a Specialised Scrub Plane?
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
I suggest you follow his vid (he's quite entertaining and brings out the drama). Then compare/contrast what he said with events as they are panning out.
Interesting that Michigan is banning open carry of guns. This looks like a line in the sand and a direct challenge to the nutters.
They'll still carry them concealed presumably, which could mean a lot of people accidentally shooting themselves in the groin, in the traditional NRA manner.
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billw
The Tattooed One
Guns is quite an emotive subject but I refer to this: -
"The Second Amendment was added because in order to maintain a free state the people must have the right to keep and bear arms, "armed citizens is what keeps the government honest." The people wanted the Amendment because no government would try to take over with armed citizens."
1. The people with guns are now trying to support a dishonest government.
2. Armed citizens with handguns and rifles versus the modern US military? That's going to last what? A few hours?
"The Second Amendment was added because in order to maintain a free state the people must have the right to keep and bear arms, "armed citizens is what keeps the government honest." The people wanted the Amendment because no government would try to take over with armed citizens."
1. The people with guns are now trying to support a dishonest government.
2. Armed citizens with handguns and rifles versus the modern US military? That's going to last what? A few hours?
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
I agree with your point about the constitution: the founders were a bunch of revolutionary terrorists, except that they won. They created a system that they felt would be less likely to devolve back into tyranny (or their view of tyranny, at least), but even then the view was that "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." The entire point of guns and the second amendment is that the guns should be available to use against a tyrannical government. It should concentrate the thinking, in other words.
About the "people with guns" supporting a "dishonest government" - as with all of this nonsense, there are facts, and there are alternative facts. The people claiming that the election was free and fair are the people who a) won the election and b) own all the media and big tech which push the narratives.
If this really does come to shooting, Afghanistan will be the model. 20 years in, the USA is just about to declair victory and run away, so perhaps not the most effective army in the world.. Given the dependence on infrastructure in the USA, I can envisage the democrat cities being without power and water, and possibly food, within a very few days. It will be interesting to see how that goes. Personally, I think that some factions are doing their damndest to make a civil war happen, but I don't actually believe anyone really wants to do the fighting. In other words, this is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
You are forgetting the republicans who won. They claim the election was free and fair in their constituencies. As far as I know, the democrats who lost have not been crying foul.
And a good swathe of the more honest/less cowed and pro-democracy parts of GOP haven't joined in the nonsense about the presidentials.
billw
The Tattooed One
There are no alternative facts. There are opinions about what happened, sure.
gregmcateer
Established Member
"The people claiming that the election was free and fair are the people who a) won the election and b) own all the media and big tech which push the narratives. "
Fox News? And I seem to remember one Donald J Trump confirmed as President 4 years ago - was that election not free and fair?
Fox News? And I seem to remember one Donald J Trump confirmed as President 4 years ago - was that election not free and fair?
But that's not the Putinist world-view (it's a lie of course).
gregmcateer
Established Member
If I tried to set up a persona in England to agitate on Brexit (to get paid appearances, produce documentaries, etc), I'd expect you to discount my opinion when information in general is readily available. When the job of someone is agitating you or providing something to anticipate (that usually doesn't materialize), that reminds me of pro-wrestling promoters. I guess people like to react more than they like to observe and wait until later to see what happens. Not a fan.
Got a big chuckle this morning reading an article about the individuals arrested so far.....one of the guys dressed in a helmet with some other duds on (including some kind of airwing patch) was recognized by his ex-wife, who called in his identity.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
There are two groups of people in the USA, as I understand it. One group believe that Trump won the election, and another group that believe Biden won the election. Both groups are having fun confirming their relative positions to themselves, and getting upset with the opposition. Useful facts will be promoted, unhelpful facts ignored or reviled as false, and perceived reality will continue on, for both sides, with no real exchange of information between the two. Business as usual, in other words. I'm pretty confident neither Putin nor Russia have much to do with it. They are managing to not communicate with each other extremely capably on their own.
It must be difficult going through life being perpetually scared of a man who can ride a horse bareback, without his shirt on.
Did I say horse?
gregmcateer
Established Member
Got a big chuckle this morning reading an article about the individuals arrested so far.....one of the guys dressed in a helmet with some other duds on (including some kind of airwing patch) was recognized by his ex-wife, who called in his identity.
That's funny! Hell hath no fury, huh?
meme-worthy. The quote from the ex-wife was something along the lines of "when I heard about this, I knew it's something he'd go do". Not 100% clear that she intentionally looked for him in footage, but sounds kind of like that!
Can I make two points? Not having read all 17 pages please excuse me any duplication:
1) Bill Clinton was alone with Monika Lewinsky. No observers, no cameras yet the while world knows what happened in that secure room. Is it even possible that any large scale fraud wouldn't have been found out?
2) How utterly predictable that now some (I accept only some) republican Trump supporters now believe that the Capital invasion was by infiltrating ANTIFA people, and not Trump supporters.
1) Bill Clinton was alone with Monika Lewinsky. No observers, no cameras yet the while world knows what happened in that secure room. Is it even possible that any large scale fraud wouldn't have been found out?
2) How utterly predictable that now some (I accept only some) republican Trump supporters now believe that the Capital invasion was by infiltrating ANTIFA people, and not Trump supporters.
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