Installation drill / driver

[Chip shop]

Hey all,

Got a couple of kitchen jobs (and other bits and bobs) coming up in the New Year, and was thinking of getting a light weight drill driver. All my battery gear at the moment is 18V Milwaukee which is a bit bulky for fitting Euro-hinges and other hardware.

Was looking at the Milwaukee Milwaukee M12FDDXKIT-202X 12V 2x2.0Ah M12 FUEL 4in1 Drill Driver Kit

or the Festool CXS Festool C18 Li 18V Li-Ion Brushless Cordless Drill Driver - Bare

Anyone have any opinions or experience of either?

Cheers,

Ed.

 

[porker]

I love my old Bosch GSR10 which is the closest to these and is great for getting into cupboards etc. Unfortunately they don't do anything quite like this any more except for a much more expensive multi-headed unit.

I would take the Milwaukee over the Festool personally as you still need batteries and a charger for the Festool which is a fair bit more cost. I don't own any Milwaukee gear but have used my mates a few times who is a builder and was very impressed in particular the power of the tiny drills for their size. Don't know much about the Festool but on reviews I have seen which had Milwaukee and Festool. generally Milwaukee has held its ground.

 

[Chip shop]

I love my old Bosch GSR10 which is the closest to these and is great for getting into cupboards etc. Unfortunately they don't do anything quite like this any more except for a much more expensive multi-headed unit.

I would take the Milwaukee over the Festool personally as you still need batteries and a charger for the Festool which is a fair bit more cost. I don't own any Milwaukee gear but have used my mates a few times who is a builder and was very impressed in particular the power of the tiny drills for their size. Don't know much about the Festool but on reviews I have seen which had Milwaukee and Festool. generally Milwaukee has held its ground.

Ta, was tending toward the red one, to be honest as I already have a some chargers which do the 12v as well as 18v.

 

[TheUnicorn]

The milwaukee you link to seems very good value, considering it includes charger and batteries. Personally I've never owned or used a 12v driver, but in passing I am always seeing good things about that (milwaukee) range, and if I could justify the cost (have 18v dewalt gear which is fine most of the time) my money would be going there.

I always feel with festool that the relative obscurity (not sold in huge numbers like dewalt, makita etc) means you are paying in part for the higher cost per item of a smaller production run. That said, you never hear anything bad about festool, so I know many would feel the extra money is justified

 

[user22161]

As well as Ryobi, I have a small Bosch screwdriver which is very handy in tight spaces or light duty work such as drawer slides, hinges, knobs etc. This seems to be the current model - Bosch IXO Basic 3.6V 1.5Ah Li-Ion Cordless Screwdriver | Electric Screwdrivers | Screwfix.com

 

[Doug71]

The link you have put for the Festool is to the C18 not the CXS, here is the CXS

https://www.screwfix.com/p/festool-...ss-multipurpose-drill/407pf?_requestid=274791
I have had the CXS for years and love it, it only gets used as a screwdriver really, I normally have another drill set up for drilling. I often have it set up without a chuck on just with a screwdriver bit in the end of the tool. The trigger control on it is great, really delicate and it feels good in the hand. Hard to explain but you end up holding it quite high up at the back using your middle finger on the trigger so you are pushing straight in line with the screw. It is an old design now so still has a brushed motor but I have never found this a problem. The other negative is the batteries don't work with any other tool (apart from the TXS which is the T handle version of CXS).

The Milwaukee is basically a copy but brushless, has more power, more chucks and is cheaper so guess that's the obvious choice as long as the trigger has the same kind of feel. The only negative I have heard about the Milwaukee is it has a button to press to switch between forward and reverse instead of the normal slide selector which some people find hard to get used to.

 

[Nelsun]

I have a pair of the Milwaukee linked above and another pair of the Bosch 12v FlexiClick installation drivers. Both are great... but neither are perfect.

The Milwaukee have more power, nicer trigger and feel better in the hand. But they have the drive direction switch on the top which is just "not great" and 25mm wire bits disappear too far into the chucks which means using an adaptor which increases the footprint. You can use 25mm bits but you need fairy fingers to get them out again.

The Bosch are considerably cheaper for a set (~£165 vs £230) and take and hold (i.e. not just magnets) a wider range of bits - Centrotec, 25mm wire, 25mm ball... it takes them all. But they're brushed, don't stand up well enough to be trusted and there's no belt hook.

I've never laid hands on the CXS, so never bought one. I've certainly read the highest of praise about them (the trigger and ergonomics mostly) but they're less powerful, take specific batteries of no use for anything else and carry a Festool price tag which, when you're likely to want a pair of them, is a turn off for me.

If I have to choose between the Bosch and the Milwaukee I'd likely go for the latter for the feels of it and the trigger. I would, however, like to poke the designer of the direction change switch up top in both eyes several times.

 

[Ollie78]

Metabo powemaxx 10.8v . Brilliant, had mine for ages they take the small 3 cell batteries or bigger ones for longer runtime.
Got mine ex demo many years ago, 2 drivers and impact driver. You can swop out the chucks from a drill chuck to a hex one and they have a right angle attachment and an offset one for getting right into corners. They get a beating and are still excellent.

They are the same as the Mafell ones just green.

Just to add I could have bought the small festool cx driver but got the metabo's instead, no regrets. 2 drills, impact driver, 3 batteries, charger, systainer and torch all for less than one festool driver with one battery.

Ollie

 

[eribaMotters]

I swapped from 12v Makita to the lightweight 10.8v with 1.3A/h Lion batteries some years back. They are an excellent lightweight drill and ideal for fitting work. A full charge will drive nearly a box of 200 screws. I've added some aftermarket 1.5A/h batteries and also run these in a matching angle drive and small circular saw. This manages 2 full 8 foot cuts in an 18mm birch plywood sheet.

Colin

 

[Lons]

If you are happy with your current drills and they're not due for replacement I'd suggest you consider an angle drill, there are cheap ones but also DeWalt, Bosch, Makita etc. Mine is a Bosch which I've had probably 8 or 10 years and I fitted a lot of kitchens which was the main reason I bought it as it gets into very tight spaces. Mine has a keyed chuck and battery is 7.2 but lasts a long time and has a fair bit of power. No kitchens to fit now I'm retired but it still gets used a lot and has never flackered. Modern versions will now be larger batteries and keyless chucks presumably

 

[Jester129]

That's a coincidence, I have a Milwaukee 18v drill/driver and an impact gun (fitted with a hex socket), a 4ah and a 5ah battery and a 12v/18v charger plus a hybrid battery as well, all in a container. £230 collected if any of you are interested.

 

[JobandKnock]

Despite 15 years of Makita 18 volt usage, and having a few times used the festool kit, I bought the Milwaukee M12FPDXKIT

a couple of years ago to tackle the same sort of issues - kitchen and bathroom installs. This was a few months before the installation driver came onto the scene. TBH I find the angle drill head a wee bit chunky in some cases - in fact I prefer to use my old Makita 18 volt angle impact driver in some circumstances. The other issue is that the hex bit holder on the drill itself is just a hex recess - no detent or magnet to hold the bit or bit holder in place, so you do have to watch that as bit holders can sometimes just fall out (have they cured that with the installation driver?) Other than those two points the drill body is fairly compact, although not much smaller than my Makita DTD170 impact driver, but where it scores is the very small battery which helps get it into awkward places and that offset drive head has been worth its' weight in gold. One difference worth noting is that the forward/reverse on this tool is the little button just above the trigger - a position I think I prefer as it is identical to the position of the buttons on my Makitas.

At the same time as I got this tool I also purchased a Milwaukee M12FQID oil impact driver which has got to be the quietest impact driver I've ever heard.

 

[Jonm]

If you are looking at li-ion batteries then they come in multiples of 3.6 volt. So 7.2, 10.8, 14.4, 18 volt.

12 volt tools are just marketing, they are 10.8 volt. I think Dewalt started the 12 volt nonsense, followed by makita with 12 volt max. They then have to try and explain how 12 volt max batteries are compatible with 10.8 volt, without saying the only difference is the label on them.

 

[Jonm]

That Milwaukee looks a superb tool with the interchangeable heads. It is no doubt actually 10.8 volts.

I have gone down the 10.8 volt (now rebadged 12 v max) Makita route in the last three years. I find them smaller, lighter, more manoeuvrable and easy to use. I only very occasionally miss the extra power of the 18 volt.

If you are going down the route of more 10.8/12 volt tools, all I would say is look at the prices and what is available. For example I recently bought a makita jigsaw for £65 and it is very effective and a joy to use. Similarly the SDS drill, lovely and light, great up a ladder drilling holes.