Small 12v drill/drivers

[HOJ]

This a part of my collection of screwdrivers, the Festool C12 is 12 years old and on its original batteries and has dived of heights quite a few times, it has a neat mag holder for spare bits on the front.

The little Black & White Makita has been around for a while but batteries are failing now, but only has a chuck option.

The Mafell is a couple of years old and has been faultless in service, with loads of power and battery life, (the Charnwood batteries are the same) I like it as it fits in my tool pouch nicely, I have recently just put on a load of Onduline roof sheets, using 500 screws all done on one charge, but it can only store one spare bit, badly.

The makita is for scale and obviously a drill and heavy, I also have 2 makita impact divers, but I've got through 5 batteries in as many years, so not such a good return.

Generally my go to screwdriver is the Festool, with the Mafell being used more for when I need to put the tool belt on.

 

[frankendoodle65]

Thanks @HOJ , that's really helpful. I gather your festool C12 is roughly comparable to the current C18 and so a fair bit larger than the CXS I'm looking at.
The Mafell looks larger than I'd expected, and the handle looks uncomfortably wide in comparison to the Makita - how do you find that in use?

 

[Jonm]

Not read all of this so sorry if repeating something. Li ion cells voltage varies with load, like most batteries, voltage drops as current increases. Li-ion cells generally regarded as 3.6 volts which is a voltage under load. So battery packs are 3.6, 7.2, 10.8, 14.4 and 18.0 volt. So 12 volt or 12 volt max are the same as 10.8, it is just marketing. I think bosch started it so Makita followed suit with 12 volt max.

So do not be put off by a 10.8 volt label.

extract from bosch website
“All Bosch Professional 12V tools are 100% compatible with all current (10.8V) Bosch Professional power tools, batteries and chargers. Thus all 10.8V and 12V tools can be further used within the same voltage class system.”

The following link as good as says “It is marketing to make the tools appear more powerful whilst only changing the label.”

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/knowledge-innovation/changeover-from-10-8v-to-12v/

 

[frankendoodle65]

Thanks everyone for your input, it's all been really helpful. After talking it over with my wife and weighing up the options, she said "it sounds like you want the festool so just go for it" - wise words so I'll be the owner of a CXS on Tuesday

Ultimately it's not the most powerful of the small drills, there's no offset head or hammer function and the batteries only serve the one tool, but so many users here and elsewhere absolutely sing it's praises and love the thing so I'm looking forward to joining the club. The systainer is an added value too, if I got the Bosch or Milwaukee the case would end up relegated to a shelf somewhere gathering dust.

Looking forward to playing with my new toy in a couple of days and if anyone can point me to a good value set of centrotec drill bits I'm all ears, the prices look a little scary from where I'm sitting

 

[Puggers]

Whilst I use Milwaukee 18v kit, their 12v driver didn’t feel comfortable in my hand - a bit chunky.
I recently opted for the Bosch Blue 12v driver as it’s slightly smaller but I have to say it does feel a touch under-powered.
Perhaps I was expecting too much and need to give it more time.

 

[BucksDad]

Are there any kinder and nicer words a wife could say apart from ‘buy the festool’

 

[Superduner]

How about, "I'll buy you the Festool"?

 

[JAW911]

+1 for the 12v Bosch. I also have the multi tool and circular saw. Perfect

 

[Doug71]

Looking forward to playing with my new toy in a couple of days and if anyone can point me to a good value set of centrotec drill bits I'm all ears, the prices look a little scary from where I'm sitting

The good news is it's quite easy to make most standard 1/4" hex end drill bits etc fit Centrotec as long as they have a long enough shaft, you just need to grind a bit off the corners and add an extra groove. I have a couple of sets of proper Centrotec bits for use in the workshop (which are nice) but for on site I use the homemade option. There are a few ways of doing it but you just really need a grinder and a file. Have a search on the Festool Owners Group and you should find more info on different methods.

I normally alter the cheap Bosch bits (example of one below) and a bonus is they still work in a normal hex chuck

 

[frankendoodle65]

The good news is it's quite easy to make most standard 1/4" hex end drill bits etc fit Centrotec as long as they have a long enough shaft, you just need to grind a bit off the corners and add an extra groove. I have a couple of sets of proper Centrotec bits for use in the workshop (which are nice) but for on site I use the homemade option. There are a few ways of doing it but you just really need a grinder and a file. Have a search on the Festool Owners Group and you should find more info on different methods.

I normally alter the cheap Bosch bits (example of one below) and a bonus is they still work in a normal hex chuck

View attachment 152835

You're an absolute legend, thanks Doug. I'll do some digging on the FOG but it looks simple enough, never would've thought of that myself

 

[BucksDad]

@frankendoodle65 my cxs just arrived yesterday . I got one on Ebay S/H for £110. Couldn't justify new unfortunately. Feels great in the hand.

Can you link to the various the bits you bought since you got yours?

 

[Ollie78]

Metabo Powermaxx. Bloody brilliant things, the newer ones have the clip in attachments for offset and angle as well.

Ollie

 

[frankendoodle65]

Hi @BucksDad , I've been meaning to post a closing statement of sorts on this thread so your post is a handy prompt, thanks!

Hope you enjoy the drill, I've only used mine a few times so far but it seems a really nice bit of kit, and the right angle adapter has already saved my backside in a tight spot so I'm glad I got it!

As for centrotec bits, I'm really liking them - they seem a huge improvement over any quick change bit system I've used before.

It seems that Axminster used to carry a decent range of centrotec compatible bits of their own brand as well as fisch, but sadly they seem to be on the way out now - largely gone entirely with the last dregs reduced.

These Fisch brad point drill bits seem really nice and an absolute bargain compared to Festool equivalents, but sadly only available in 6mm and 10mm - if they're sizes you're likely to use they're a good buy.

If you want pozi 1 or Philips 2 bits, These are considerably cheaper than the Festool equivalent.

I also picked up a couple of These hinge centering drills, but they're very bulky so not suitable for small hinges unfortunately. Seem nicely made though so I'm sure I'll find a use for them on some projects. I believe trend also make some that are centrotec compatible at about double the price.

I also got This set of brad point drill bits, I got lucky and got a 15% off deal on eBay, so keep an eye out because I think I paid about £37. Do note they're rather short, I believe there's a set of longer bits too but alongside the couple of longer Fisch bits I linked above I'm happy I went with this set.

I also managed to pick up This hss drill set in the eBay deal for a decent price. Not cheap by any means, but once the drill bits wear out or snap they are replaceable with any suitable sized bits. I also picked up a spare 3mm drill and used a scrap of brass tube to make an adapter to hold a 2mm drill bit which works nicely.

I also picked up These pz2 bits, they're a little pricey but I use pz2 screws more than any others so it's nice to have them.

If you want to use normal short screwdriver bits, This set comes with a really nice bit holder, again I managed to get it in an eBay deal for 15% off.

And finally I picked up a Trend countersinking drill, I've only used it in mdf so far but seems to do a tidy job.


Please take these suggestions with a grain of salt because I've really not used any of them an awful lot yet, and besides the first two Axminster links I'm sure everything else can be found at much better prices if you're patient with eBay deals or shop around. Your needs will vary from mine, but as a bare minimum I'm sure one of the drill bit sets and the screwdriver bit holder will be a great start - after using that for an afternoon I went a bit nuts and ordered everything else in an excited flurry. Don't tell my wife!

Another point to note, the Festool drill bits while expensive do seem to be a really nice quality - very sharp and cut very cleanly so I don't mind that they're a little pricey so long as they last well also bear in mind they can also be chucked up in a standard Jacobs chuck so you can use them on any other drill you may have.