And a lot of people think it’s just like ground force where you have 40 or 50 trades people and every machine known to man and the space to use them . Then it’s all done in 2 days ..
Helping out a family member
- Thread starter Bingy man
- Start date
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Jameshow
Established Member
If it's family you trust respect and love do it for free with there help.
If that isn't the case run away.
I did a kitchen with my bil, before Christmas, I was in a bad place so was a nice distraction. We worked together I had my donkey brain whilst he went OCD with the Lazer level.
I would not have wanted to be paid for a job when I could trust them and if I do trust them I wouldn't want the cash as it's not day to day my job.
If that isn't the case run away.
I did a kitchen with my bil, before Christmas, I was in a bad place so was a nice distraction. We worked together I had my donkey brain whilst he went OCD with the Lazer level.
I would not have wanted to be paid for a job when I could trust them and if I do trust them I wouldn't want the cash as it's not day to day my job.
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My friend who would be doing the job with I’ve known since school , last week he helped me cover a concrete ramp with non slip sheets as the 1 of the customers is disabled and his wife is none to steady on her feet . We spent the day on it and they were very pleased. He took no payment. Yesterday I spent the day at his house as he’s got a new garage door but the floor under ghe existing door has a 1 1/2 gap on the rhs running to 1/2 inch on the left. Spent the day chopping back the concrete floor by 8 “ across the width of the door and re concreting it so the new door / frame will fit nicely- I took no payment. These other relative’s are not in this category as they will take everything but give nothing back . 3 weeks of heavy graft is not something I’d do for free unless the level of friendship was high or a close family member that would appreciate the effort reqd to complete such work. It’s very therapeutic to do something nice for someone but it’s often taken for granted..
Tris
What am I doing here?
Getting all sorts of alarm bells here, as I think you have too.
Think the advice to keep well away is spot on. If it was for someone like the mate you describe then yes, absolutely do it, but it sounds like you'll end up begrudging every day on site and nadgering your back or worse for people who won't appreciate it.
Now the trick is to find a way to be too busy to possibly fit it in, like a relative on the wife's side who's a plumber, does a great job if you don't mind waiting a couple of years
Think the advice to keep well away is spot on. If it was for someone like the mate you describe then yes, absolutely do it, but it sounds like you'll end up begrudging every day on site and nadgering your back or worse for people who won't appreciate it.
Now the trick is to find a way to be too busy to possibly fit it in, like a relative on the wife's side who's a plumber, does a great job if you don't mind waiting a couple of years
I think the fact they have fallen out with their next door neighbour rings massive alarm bells for me, as previously suggested develop a back problem that prevents you from working for (estimate a time period so they get someone else to do it) nothing worse than working for family, unless you know them well and can trust their integrity.
Some to me like Bingy is looking for the best sort of advice; that which confirms what he already thinks! 
Time to pull out the"bad back/no machinery/job too big/ honestly best thing to do is get landscapers in" card...
Time to pull out the"bad back/no machinery/job too big/ honestly best thing to do is get landscapers in" card...
I do think @Bingy man that some jobs are not worth taking on.
So many red flags there and quite unreasonable demands.
This one sounds absolutely cursed even before it has started.
Others are confirming what you really know yourself. Even if said
family members are not happy that you decline to do it, you really
should not engage with this project. You will regret it, that is a certainty.
Use the garnered wisdom of life to know when it's just sensible to
say no.
Do yourself the favour my friend
So many red flags there and quite unreasonable demands.
This one sounds absolutely cursed even before it has started.
Others are confirming what you really know yourself. Even if said
family members are not happy that you decline to do it, you really
should not engage with this project. You will regret it, that is a certainty.
Use the garnered wisdom of life to know when it's just sensible to
say no.
Do yourself the favour my friend
Run. away... Fast
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
The more I think about this the more I think stepping away would be the best course of action. You clearly have more than a modicum of kindness and responsibility in your dna @Bingy man but my sense is that your relatives are being disrespectful and taking advantage of that.
stuart little
Established Member
I totally agree, Jacob, with your quote of; "The client is always wrong"! I often thought that working in the motor trade, & the same goes for 'family', they expect you to drop everything to 'do' their vehicle, refuse, & they don't come back again, BUT still remain on good terms - hopefully.
Putting it simply, FWIW. I won't do jobs for family and family don't do jobs for me because we value the relationship.
HOJ
Established Member
Guaranteed.
There is a risk you could end up out of action as a consequence of aggravating a pre existing condition, then what happens.
I have to be very mindful of the activities I can physically undertake, with dodgy knees and the on set of arthritis in my hands, and along with knowing my limitations of the skills needed relative to the type of work being asked of me, I have learned the hard way how to use the word NO.
I recently did a job building a garden office for my sister and Brother in law. I get on well with them, but i explained that they may be better off getting someone else in as i would have to charge my normal rates for the job otherwise i am losing income. It is different if it is a day to help out, i have been up to fit some fence panels as a favour on a Saturday, but doing a big job takes me away from other jobs where i am charging my normal rates. He was happy to pay my usual rates and i did end up doing a favour as i made the door and windows for the price i could have got cheap pre made stuff.
From what i have read of your situation, i would run a mile. There are alarm bells ringing everywhere.
Nick
From what i have read of your situation, i would run a mile. There are alarm bells ringing everywhere.
Nick
okeydokey
Established Member
Perhaps just kindly say that you're sorry but the extent of the job is beyond what you feel you can accomplish and suggest they get quotes elsewhere perhaps suggesting that they look at check a trade (hmm) to find a contractor.
RobinBHM
Established Member
Tell your relatives you are very happy to do the work but your back is bad and they will have to do all the barrowing
after moving 8 tons of gear, they will be thinking you are far too cheap....or they will be too cream crackered to complain.
Well I’ve read all of the replies and tbh agree in principle with all . I’ve sent family members a mini contract with my t/c,s the work will be guaranteed for 12 months only ( against my workmanship) not the actual materials. There is no guarantee for the turf or the the sleepers. I’m sticking to my original estimate of 20 days but I’m reserving the right to extend this for circumstances that are beyond my control , bad weather , non availability of materials, waiting for the skip to be exchanged. or anything that prevents me from working once I arrive on site . I’ve insisted the concrete will be ready mix for consistency and it will be pumped so it can be poured directly into the pre prepared formers and tamped to the correct level. They will pay for all materials and any hire equipment in advance as reqd . They will pay 1/2 the labour up front and 1/4 after 10 days and the final 1/4 on completion. I’ve written it out and my mates Mrs has printed it out all official like and It will be signed and witnessed . In short I’ve made it sound like it will probably cost a lot more than my original quote as I’ve slightly increased the labour cost per day due to a clerical error. I also reserve the right to cancel this agreement if if they as a family or any individual member of the family place any unreasonable demands on how the work is done . . . Also I’ve advised they should get additional quotes and go with what’s best for them . I have suggested check a trade , my builder . Com and facebook marketplace. My aim is to make my quote as unacceptable and unattractive as possible but should they accept it we won’t lose out financially. It’s a bit like when I’ve given a price for say £150 and the customer says can you do it for £125 I then reply no but I can do it for £175 - thanks for all your advice and help. If they have any sense between them it’s them who will be doing the running. I mean would you accept a contract like this 
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Don't guarantee anything. If that's what they want then don't work for them.Well I’ve read all of the replies and tbh agree in principle with all . I’ve sent family members a mini contract with my t/c,s the work will be guaranteed for 12 months only ( against my workmanship) not the actual materials. There is no guarantee for the turf or the the sleepers. I’m sticking to my original estimate of 20 days but I’m reserving the right to extend this for circumstances that are beyond my control , bad weather , non availability of materials, waiting for the skip to be exchanged. or anything that prevents me from working once I arrive on site . I’ve insisted the concrete will be ready mix for consistency and it will be pumped so it can be poured directly into the pre prepared formers and tamped to the correct level. They will pay for all materials and any hire equipment in advance as reqd . They will pay 1/2 the labour up front and 1/4 after 10 days and the final 1/4 on completion. I’ve written it out and my mates Mrs has printed it out all official like and It will be signed and witnessed . In short I’ve made it sound like it will probably cost a lot more than my original quote as I’ve slightly increased the labour cost per day due to a clerical error. I also reserve the right to cancel this agreement if if they as a family or any individual member of the family place any unreasonable demands on how the work is done . . . Also I’ve advised they should get additional quotes and go with what’s best for them . I have suggested check a trade , my builder . Com and facebook marketplace. My aim is to make my quote as unacceptable and unattractive as possible but should they accept it we won’t lose out financially. It’s a bit like when I’ve given a price for say £150 and the customer says can you do it for £125 I then reply no but I can do it for £175 - thanks for all your advice and help. If they have any sense between them it’s them who will be doing the running. I mean would you accept a contract like this
It sounds like an appalling agreement in the first place. Do they think you have criminal tendencies? Or have they?
If it's a complicated job it's a good idea to have a design and specification of course, but not to turn that into a contract, just as a guide to the work to be done.
I'd do it by the day and put in an invoice every week but kick off with a down payment in advance, so that either you or they can end the project at any time without necessarily falling out.
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Seriously, just say no. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
You're digging yourself into a hole with this.
You're digging yourself into a hole with this.
