Hand planing issue

[jimmy_s]

could well be the iron's not sharp enough. Oak dulls a plane iron quite quickly. Also could have too much set on the blade. Wind the blade back until the plane wont cut and then advance it slowly until it just starts to cut. Your blade should be razor sharp when its honed - ie it should be able to shave the hair off your arm. If its blunt with oak or you have too much set on it then you will experience the plane bringing up in the timber.

 

[Jacob]

.... easier in my view to just flip the timber onto the reference instead of having to walk over to the end of the timber to sight down the length.

You've need a reference piece to start with and anyway it won't be far to walk to the end of the piece

This method works best using a long reach angle poise lamp though, which some might not have...slight bit of a faff otherwise to move a different suitable lamp each side of a length of timber.

A powerful hand torch with a focussing beam is good - you can get a very straight beam which shows up everything

I don't think I could sight a timber down to anywhere near the accuracy that can be easily achieved using a reference to work to,

Practice practice! Or how are you going to make the reference piece to start with? Just looking at stuff can be really useful...

 

[Jacob]

Shooting board style is one way for the edges. Just a few offcuts nailed together, doesn't need to be a work of art.
Door wedge variations and other folding wedges are good for holding boards when you haven't got a vice

 

[Cabinetman]

My observations are.
If you’re starting to learn to plane you need to use a smaller plane like a number four.
You need something that isn’t moving about even fractionally as a base on which to plane.
Have you rubbed the sole with a bit of candle, if not you will find the difference is staggering
When you’re learning to plane a piece of wood it’s too early to worry about cambers or an awful lot of the other things that have been talked about on here.
Basic rules to start you off with, get the blade reasonably sharp, fit the cap iron pretty close to the blade, move the frog forward until when the blade is fitted there is only a fairly small gap for the shaving to go through, start with the blade not projecting at all, and move it forward a little bit at a time until it starts to cut, and don’t forget to rub the sole of the plane with a bit of candle.
This should get you started, you will know when it’s working properly,— it’s extremely satisfying and it produces a noise as it cuts somewhere between a whistle and a whoosh haha. Ian
Edit, One other important thing is to look at the side of the piece of wood you’re planing and imagine it’s the fur on a cat or a dog, there is only one way to stroke it!

 

[jimmy_s]

better post than mine from Cabinetman. It doesn't have to be razor sharp but at least if it is then it helps rule out this as an issue - providing the angles you have sharpened the blade are ok.

Sometimes its useful to have someone who can see what you are doing as it can be blatantly obvious to someone else. I went and helped someone who was struggling a few years back on here. The plane iron was sticking out about an eighth of an inch past the sole and it looked like it had been sharpened on a paving slab.

 

[Lons]

"I am just planing short and narrow pieces of oak that I have from an old oak elevated garden bed that I have disassembled.
They are 10 cm wide and 3 cm thick. Length is around 50 cm I try to plane them square and true just to learn planing technique."


Might sound silly but maybe you need to try practicing with other timber, I'd question that oak being dry if previously used for a garden bed.

 

[Jacob]

My observations are.
If you’re starting to learn to plane you need to use a smaller plane like a number four.
You need something that isn’t moving about even fractionally as a base on which to plane.
Have you rubbed the sole with a bit of candle, if not you will find the difference is staggering

Absolutely!

When you’re learning to plane a piece of wood it’s too early to worry about cambers or an awful lot of the other things that have been talked about on here.

Hmm - I'd say do worry about camber - it makes planing a lot easier - a straight edge is a cause of a lot of beginners problems - all that wittering about full width shavings for starters - you don't need full width shavings, or full length, unless you are in a competition with some Japanese planing maniacs.
In fact - don't look at shavings at all, look at the surface you are supposed to be planing.

Basic rules to start you off with, get the blade reasonably sharp, fit the cap iron pretty close to the blade, move the frog forward until when the blade is fitted there is only a fairly small gap for the shaving to go through,

Nope. Set the frog exactly dead in line with the back of the slot so that the last few mm of the blade is supported by the frog AND the back of the mouth. Eyeball through both ways to check.This gives maximum support/stiffness to the blade. Never move it again for the rest of your life! You are right about too many variables, this is one you can do without.

start with the blade not projecting at all, and move it forward a little bit at a time until it starts to cut, and don’t forget to rub the sole of the plane with a bit of candle.
This should get you started, you will know when it’s working properly,— it’s extremely satisfying and it produces a noise as it cuts somewhere between a whistle and a whoosh haha. Ian
Edit, One other important thing is to look at the side of the piece of wood you’re planing and imagine it’s the fur on a cat or a dog, there is only one way to stroke it!

Yep!

 

[Woody2Shoes]

One point that I don't think has been mentioned re the source of your workpiece: If this is reclaimed timber that was in contact with the ground, it could a) be a bit punky/pre-rotten which may explain the rather 'dry' looking shavings, and/or b) be full of tiny sand/grit particles which can quickly dull a blade. Cheers, W2S

 

[Flartybarty]

Make sure yout blade is razor sharp and set it so it gives paper thin shavings - I ,ean really thin. Prefereably, your oak is straight grained and has no knots - is so, you should be OK. Don't concentrate exclusively on getting full length shavings - that's not necessasry if your shvings are fine.

 

[tibi]

"I am just planing short and narrow pieces of oak that I have from an old oak elevated garden bed that I have disassembled.
They are 10 cm wide and 3 cm thick. Length is around 50 cm I try to plane them square and true just to learn planing technique."


Might sound silly but maybe you need to try practicing with other timber, I'd question that oak being dry if previously used for a garden bed.

It has been air drying for a few months, but I cannot know for sure, as I do not have a humidity meter.

 

[D_W]

It has been air drying for a few months, but I cannot know for sure, as I do not have a humidity meter.

If it's a little wet, it should actually plane more easily save a little extra friction on the sole of a plane.

 

[TRITON]

Take a look at the old wooden planes as used by joiners,carpenters and cabinetmakers for many many years.
Do they have fine mouths ? No, its about 8mm.
Do they have a cap iron set to within 1mm ?. No its usually a wooden wedge. and its well back from the edge of the blade

So why are these things no so prevalent when it comes to having a plane cut perfectly. Is it just a case of ...em... some folk 'claiming' these criteria are whats needed and if you dont have them then you're doing it all wrong ?.
The wood workers of the past had no such refinements, and yet some of the best furniture ever made is of that era.

 

[Jacob]

Take a look at the old wooden planes as used by joiners,carpenters and cabinetmakers for many many years.
Do they have fine mouths ? No, its about 8mm.
Do they have a cap iron set to within 1mm ?. No its usually a wooden wedge. and its well back from the edge of the blade

So why are these things no so prevalent when it comes to having a plane cut perfectly. Is it just a case of ...em... some folk 'claiming' these criteria are whats needed and if you dont have them then you're doing it all wrong ?.
The wood workers of the past had no such refinements, and yet some of the best furniture ever made is of that era.

And they all had cambered blades with rounded bevels, except where technically disadvantageous such as on rebate planes - need to be straight edged but rounded bevel no prob.
There was a big discontinuity between pre WW2 woodworkers at the tail end of a very long tradition and the revival from 60s onwards, mostly hobbyists.
Even if professional may not have had much prior trade training - businesses closed, no apprenticeships, reduced training opportunities etc.
We tend to learn from mags, new writers and new tool makers - who often are obviously trying to work it out for themselves and often getting it wrong, honing jigs most obviously.
Also we've all got more cash - if something doesn't work we don't have to put up with it and learn how to make it work, we just buy new blade/sharpening kit/gadget/ and carry on fiddling about til the cows come home, with more kit than you could shake a stick at!

 

[Cabinetman]

I know I won’t persuade you two, but there are good reasons why you need planes set up the way I was saying.
The bit of the sole in front of the mouth has to be close to the blade to stop the blade tearing the wood upwards as it cuts this is why the sole of the plane has to be very flat in that area.
The cap Iron is not there to support the blade it is there to curl and break the shaving thus preventing the wood tearing upwards from the action of the blade.
Old planes often have that gap showing between the blade and the front of the mouth for the simple reason that the sole of the planes were trued up now and again which makes the mouth larger, or it was originally made for rough work to take a lot of material off, as I have said above for finer work you need to close that gap down to prevent tear out. It’s why planes are designed the way they are. Ian

 

[Jacob]

I know I won’t persuade you two, but there are good reasons why you need planes set up the way I was saying.
The bit of the sole in front of the mouth has to be close to the blade to stop the blade tearing the wood upwards as it cuts this is why the sole of the plane has to be very flat in that area.

They can work in that way, but they can also work with wide mouths etc. You can get a clean cut with a gouge with no sole or cap iron. There are a lot of variables which is probably why there are so many competing theories.

The cap Iron is not there to support the blade it is there to curl and break the shaving thus preventing the wood tearing upwards from the action of the blade.

The brilliant Stanley Bailey design has the cap iron, the blade, the lever cap and the frog, together making a "blade unit"; as good as the heavy blade you'd find in older planes, but using a thin easily removed/replaced/resharpenable blade. Nearest equivalent being the safety razor. The cap iron may help to curl the shaving but it's main function is to stiffen the thin blade

..... for finer work you need to close that gap down to prevent tear out. It’s why planes are designed the way they are. Ian

I think the frog is bolted on to make it cheaper to construct. Inevitably leads to fiddling about and adjusting but for most purposes it needs to be at zero - with the blade also touching the back of the mouth to give it maximum support.

 

[Ttrees]

No reason that I see why anyone would prefer a tight mouth, as it stops a double iron working properly, if one is intending on eliminating tearout, that is....

Why make it far harder to push the plane, and render the cap pretty much useless
(as in, tearout will be present on tougher stock) by doing so?

Chamfers are the only job that I see possible use for a closed up mouth, on a double iron plane.
Got any other reasons anyone?

 

[thetyreman]

No reason that I see why anyone would prefer a tight mouth, as it stops a double iron working properly, if one is intending on eliminating tearout, that is....

Why make it far harder to push the plane, and render the cap pretty much useless
(as in, tearout will be present on tougher stock) by doing so?

Chamfers are the only job that I see possible use for a closed up mouth, on a double iron plane.
Got any other reasons anyone?

difficult grain as well, reversing grain, such as a bookmatched panel, and quartersawn grain, closed mouth is good for a smoother for the very final pass, it seems to help prevent tearout as well having the cap iron close to the edge.

 

[Jacob]

difficult grain as well, reversing grain, such as a bookmatched panel, and quartersawn grain, closed mouth is good for a smoother for the very final pass, it seems to help prevent tearout as well having the cap iron close to the edge.

I'm sure you are right but if it's critical most people wouldn't take the risk and would go for scraper, or even power sander.

 

[G S Haydon]

I know I won’t persuade you two, but there are good reasons why you need planes set up the way I was saying.
The bit of the sole in front of the mouth has to be close to the blade to stop the blade tearing the wood upwards as it cuts this is why the sole of the plane has to be very flat in that area.
The cap Iron is not there to support the blade it is there to curl and break the shaving thus preventing the wood tearing upwards from the action of the blade.
Old planes often have that gap showing between the blade and the front of the mouth for the simple reason that the sole of the planes were trued up now and again which makes the mouth larger, or it was originally made for rough work to take a lot of material off, as I have said above for finer work you need to close that gap down to prevent tear out. It’s why planes are designed the way they are. Ian

An excellent response. On Jacob's point about rounded bevels. Yes, they can and do work well. On lots of old tools I find they have really low primary bevels, often less than 20 degrees with a secondary honing bevel.

On the OP's planing questions, I won't add anything more. You have plenty to get on with. Just avoid watching YT where woodworkers use carefully selected wood for that stunning look.

 

[Ttrees]

difficult grain as well, reversing grain, such as a bookmatched panel, and quartersawn grain, closed mouth is good for a smoother for the very final pass, it seems to help prevent tearout as well having the cap iron close to the edge.

You can't have both though!
The close set cap iron completly eliminates any chance of tearout on the toughest of timbers, where as a tight mouth will only reduce tearout, and be a whole lot harder to push.
A tight mouth will make it seem like the cap is set as close as you can get it, so it will never be close enough for the toughest species you will encounter.
If you try to do both, the plane will clog, chatter and refuse to take a shaving from the get go.
Everyone who uses the cap states the same.
Tom