Hand planing issue

[tibi]

Hello,

I would like to ask for and advice. I have stared to plane some oak, and I cannot get full width full length shavings.
I have a slight camber on my No.5 Stanley, Cap iron is set 1mm from the blade. Sole is waxed.
These are my shavings

Personally I think that my blade is not sharp enough, but I would like to ask if this is the main reason, or are there some other possible causes?
When I plane the wood it feels as if the plane stops and then when I apply more force it jumps forward. The blade is set so that it takes as thinest shavings as possible.

I sharpen free hand, as my entry level honing guide was severely out of square, so I thew it away. I use sandpaper for coarse sharpening and 1000/4000 waterstone after it. I use the ruler trick on the back of the blade. Some diamond stones are on the way home for Christmas.

Thank you very much for your feedback.

 

[Nigel Burden]

You might be correct about your blade not being sharp enough. Make sure that you can feel a burr at the cutting edge before going on to the next stage, then remove it by placing the blade flat on your stone and pulling the blade once to remove it before going on to the next stone. The cutting edge should not be shiney if it is sharp, although it will be after stropping.

Nigel.

 

[Argus]

I'm not sure about the fashion for cambers on blades....... it effectively turns the tool into a scrub-plane and you get heavy shavings like that. However, you don't mention the width of the mouth (can be adjusted by moving the frog, but that's a bit hit and miss), which can also have an effect on the quality of the shavings.

If you want to avoid 'tram-line' marks at the edge of the cut, keep the blade edge straight across and just very slightly round over the edges to about 3mm in from the corner.
Also, that wood to me, from the pictures looks a bit wavy - perhaps it has an undulating grain length? That will leave minute tear-out marks.......

I don't know what your sharpening system or technique is, but if your blade were not sharp, it wouldn't cut.......

It's hard to see the exact problem from photos, but you'll certainly get lots of ideas here...... sometimes conflicting, so work through it logically.

Good luck

 

[Ttrees]

A full width shaving will need a near straight camber...
You say your cap iron is 1mm away from the edge...
Unless your doing quite heavy work in agreeable stock, one questions if your camber is too large to get the cap iron closer.
You will get a near a full width shaving if you can move the cap iron to no further away than 1/32" from the edge.

As for a full length shaving, as long as the work is either fully supported if thin,
or stout enough not to deflect, then that's just a matter of having a straight edge to work to...oh and a good angle poise lamp to check progress.

If you don't have a straight edge, then I would get some long beams and plane them up parallel and flat, so you can flip them around to double any error that might happen in time.

You could even flatten your bench with these

 

[tibi]

I'm not sure about the fashion for cambers on blades....... it effectively turns the tool into a scrub-plane and you get heavy shavings like that. However, you don't mention the width of the mouth (can be adjusted by moving the frog, but that's a bit hit and miss), which can also have an effect on the quality of the shavings.

If you want to avoid 'tram-line' marks at the edge of the cut, keep the blade edge straight across and just very slightly round over the edges to about 3mm in from the corner.
Also, that wood to me, from the pictures looks a bit wavy - perhaps it has an undulating grain length? That will leave minute tear-out marks.......

I don't know what your sharpening system or technique is, but if your blade were not sharp, it wouldn't cut.......

It's hard to see the exact problem from photos, but you'll certainly get lots of ideas here...... sometimes conflicting, so work through it logically.

Good luck

My camber is so that there is a 0,2 - 0,3 mm gap at the corners, so nothing too heavy. The mouth is a little bit wider (3 mm) as this is a jack plane and when I get it too narrow, it clogs up easily.

 

[D_W]

Hello,

I would like to ask for and advice. I have stared to plane some oak, and I cannot get full width full length shavings.
I have a slight camber on my No.5 Stanley, Cap iron is set 1mm from the blade. Sole is waxed.
These are my shavings View attachment 98980

Personally I think that my blade is not sharp enough, but I would like to ask if this is the main reason, or are there some other possible causes?
When I plane the wood it feels as if the plane stops and then when I apply more force it jumps forward. The blade is set so that it takes as thinest shavings as possible.

I sharpen free hand, as my entry level honing guide was severely out of square, so I thew it away. I use sandpaper for coarse sharpening and 1000/4000 waterstone after it. I use the ruler trick on the back of the blade. Some diamond stones are on the way home for Christmas.

Thank you very much for your feedback.

Take the plane down to the frog and handles and tighten everything on it. Make sure you have good tension on lever cap and that the cap iron and iron are bedded well at the bottom of the plane (look in through the mouth and look at the top of the frog and make sure both of those ends have good contact - middle doesn't matter).

As far as the cap iron goes, a rule of thumb is that you operate if you're using the cap iron about twice as far from the edge as the thickest part of a measured shaving in hand (the shaving is generally thicker than the amount of wood removed as it gets compressed, broken, and isn't quite as dense (the compression isn't in the squished sense in thickness, rather in length).

To make sure you don't have the cap set too close, plane in the direction that the wood planes well and set the cap off another mm.

There is one squirrely issue for planes that comes up even once you've tightened everything that could be left if the plane is sharp and that still doesn't work, and that's that the handle on a plane can seem tight, but be as tight as you think because the long rod through the back of the handle is tight in the threads but just shy of holding down a shrunken handle (which is held down when you look at the plane by the front screw, but when you are over the plane pushing forward, the handle springs up from the boss that it sits on a little bit and the cut is intermittent). that is an uncommon thing, I think, but when it occurs, it's very annoying. to check for it, put something on the bench to push the plane against, put the web of your hand in the handle and push briskly and make sure the handle doesn't bend on the bottom with the back lifting up off of the casting a tiny amount. Even the smallest amount of relief will cause huge problems.

The fix for this is to shorten the rod a little bit or put washers in the top of the plane handle as a shim so that the screw holds the handle down very tightly.

Two comments about wood - 1) if the wood isn't level to the bottom of the plane and shaving thickness, then you'll get intermittent shavings
2) sometimes wood just isn't great quality or is fragile and the shavings will come out in segments, plus what look like chainsaw chips. Even in that case, the cut should be continuous.

 

[D_W]

Also, don't read here too long and get 20 different suggestions or you'll not get the problem solved. See if the ones so far make sense and try them.

 

[tibi]

A full width shaving will need a near straight camber...
You say your cap iron is 1mm away from the edge...
Unless your doing quite heavy work in agreeable stock, one questions if your camber is too large to get the cap iron closer.
You will get a near a full width shaving if you can move the cap iron to no further away than 1/32" from the edge.

As for a full length shaving, as long as the work is either fully supported if thin,
or stout enough not to deflect, then that's just a matter of having a straight edge to work to...oh and a good angle poise lamp to check progress.

If you don't have a straight edge, then I would get some long beams and plane them up parallel and flat, so you can flip them around to double any error that might happen in time.


View attachment 98981

You could even flatten your bench with these

I have terrible conditions right now. I have an iron vice mounted to a sawhorse and I sit on the sawhorse so that it does not move around. The timber is clamped in the vice, so it is max. 10 cm in width. I am going to build a workbench in spring, but I do not have space for building it in my shed, so I need to build it outside and then move inside to the shed. So I am just sitting on the sawhorse at the moment so that I can get at least some practice in planing.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd seek out a heavy beam like a sleeper for example, or something as wide as you can fit where you're working and flatten it.
Butt it against the wall so it wont move...maybe a bracket or something affixed to the wall to keep it
from moving and stick an f clamp on the beam to keep it there.

As for a planing stop I would get another plank of suitable length and height, and also butt it against said wall to do the job.
Even a bit of 3/4" ply would do.

If that stop is too high, then put a flattened plank of suitable size under the work.
No need for clamping something in a vice.

Tom

 

[Jacob]

Sounds like you need better support for the workpiece. If it's not rock solid you get that sort of jumping you describe. Might do better if you have a heavy timber as temporary work top, across your sawhorses, one end jammed against the wall or something solid. Then plane with the timber sitting loose but up against a stop, nailed or clamped on.
Google "japanese planing beam" to get the idea. It's a simple planing bench
You should always cut to length before planing anything - it's much easier and more economical. You don't particularly need a full width shaving and a rounder camber would certainly help.
PS I see Ttrees has beaten me to it!
PPS just looked at Jap planing beam images. Can be confusing because some show pull planes in use and are not working away from the wall or the stop, they are pulling towards it.

 

[tibi]

Sounds like you need better support for the workpiece. If it's not rock solid you get that sort of jumping you describe. Might do better if you have a heavy timber as temporary work top, across your sawhorses, one end jammed against the wall or something solid. Then plane with the timber sitting loose but up against a stop, nailed or clamped on.
Google "japanese planing beam" to get the idea. It's a simple planing bench
You should always cut to length before planing anything - it's much easier and more economical. You don't particularly need a full width shaving and a rounder camber would certainly help.
PS I see Ttrees has beaten me to it!
PPS just looked at Jap planing beam images. Can be confusing because some show pull planes in use and are not working away from the wall or the stop, they are pulling towards it.

I have a 5 cm thick benchtop (150cm x 60cm) that I have made earlier and I would like to use it for my bench. I have a company nearby that will cut me a steel planing stop on a CNC laser machine so I will use this.

I will try to put this top free on sawhorses and place it against a wall so that it does not move. if it will move back during the planning, I will clamp it to the sawhorses.

 

[Jacob]

I have a 5 cm thick benchtop (150cm x 60cm) that I have made earlier and I would like to use it for my bench. I have a company nearby that will cut me a steel planing stop on a CNC laser machine so I will use this.

I will try to put this top free on sawhorses and place it against a wall so that it does not move. if it will move back during the planning, I will clamp it to the sawhorses.

For a planing stop just nail on a scrap of wood. Or even a couple of screw heads sticking up will do.
Cutting to size is essential - don't plane anything until you have a design, cutting list, timber cut to component length/width/depth

 

[tibi]

For a planing stop just nail on a scrap of wood. Or even a couple of screw heads sticking up will do.
Cutting to size is essential - don't plane anything until you have a design, cutting list, timber cut to component length/width/depth

currently I am just planing short and narrow pieces of oak that I have from an old oak elevated garden bed that I have disassembled.
They are 10 cm wide and 3 cm thick. Length is around 50 cm I try to plane them square and true just to learn planing technique.

Then I will create a marking gauge or a small block plane from it.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd find something to stiffen the top up if you can see deflection with a straight edge whilst moderately pushing down on it, something stout resting underneath to act as an apron in regards to deflection.

Is is possible to affix a piece of angle iron or bit of fence post to the wall?

I would prefer a planing stop as wide as the top is, rather than a single point stop, no need to go fancy with crisp edges, if you have some other short timbers to stack to get a suitable planing height for when you need to plane narrow stock.

 

[Ttrees]

If you've got a straight edge or a flat bench, and you don't have a good lamp to see how the work is sitting on the reference... you can burnish the timber on a flat surface to show you the high spots...you can highlight this further to get the jist of things
by colouring in a beam of some sort or reference you have.
You can use graphite or even a dark crayon!...

It won't be long before you ditch that, and take heed of Mr Charlesworth's methods regarding planing technique...
I.e stopped shavings, having a reliable reference to work to, and using it for pivoting the work to do the same job as the crayon/graphite stick from the art shop.

 

[thetyreman]

you only want a very slight camber, I try and aim for 0.5mm for the blade edge to cap iron, it's much easier to do this with hock cap irons, but it is possible with traditional cap irons as well if you are careful, it's very easy to round over the edges of the blade too much, which means not being able to get the cap iron extremely close to the edge.

 

[Jacob]

you only want a very slight camber, I try and aim for 0.5mm for the blade edge to cap iron, it's much easier to do this with hock cap irons, but it is possible with traditional cap irons as well if you are careful, it's very easy to round over the edges of the blade too much, which means not being able to get the cap iron extremely close to the edge.

You can have the cap iron further back, or if necessary right over the edge but with just the cutting centre of the blade showing. Sounds odd but it works.

 

[Jacob]

If you've got a straight edge or a flat bench, and you don't have a good lamp to see how the work is sitting on the reference... you can burnish the timber on a flat surface to show you the high spots...you can highlight this further to get the jist of things
by colouring in a beam of some sort or reference you have.
You can use graphite or even a dark crayon!...

It won't be long before you ditch that, and take heed of Mr Charlesworth's methods regarding planing technique...
I.e stopped shavings, having a reliable reference to work to, and using it for pivoting the work to do the same job as the crayon/graphite stick from the art shop.
View attachment 99010

Best way to check straightness is to eyeball the length and check for twist with boning rods. Even if you have a long enough straightedge you still have to look at it - you might as well look at the workpiece. Short straight edge good for across - to see dips and hollows. Pencil lead the edge and marks the high points

 

[Ttrees]

Although with suggested planing beam, if flattened, will do the job of the straight edge and winding sticks, easier in my view to just flip the timber onto the reference instead of having to walk over to the end of the timber to sight down the length.

This method works best using a long reach angle poise lamp though, which some might not have...slight bit of a faff otherwise to move a different suitable lamp each side of a length of timber.

I don't think I could sight a timber down to anywhere near the accuracy that can be easily achieved using a reference to work to,
nor see it as methods like stabilizers for a bicycle, which is just another thing to "have"...
but yet to see someone achieve the same results as with said... flat and not in wind reference to work to,
I'll stand corrected when I see that, an honest checking of the work like Charlesworth demonstrates.

I agree with you, that one doesn't need to have a camber so slight to get a flat board, and it will be a surer thing to do with a wee bit of camber...
(if the timber is compliant)
If you don't have that much camber, then one has to either plane like what Cosman demonstrates with the plane resting skewed on the stock, or if planing sets of shavings in a row, then much less than the 10mm in from the edge will be required to true up/correct wind, so a bit more care needed to rest the plane further off the edge.

Tom

 

[tibi]

I have put my tabletop on the sawhorses and leaned the front against the storage rack that I have in the shed (I have no direct wall available in that tiny space). I have used a thin full-width batten and it works great for planing faces. However, I need to figure out how to secure the workpiece when jointing edges.

My idea is to create a mortice in the table-top and use one square peg and one wedged peg to secure the workpiece. I have created a draft of it.

Do you think that it will work? If yes, how far from the edges should the mortice be, so that it does not split when I will hammer in the pegs? The material of the tabletop is pine and the thickness is 50 mm.

If you have a simpler or more effective idea, please let me know.

Thank you.