RobinBHM
Established Member
Are you mad?
Domino Jointers Are they really worth it, or just a gimic
- Thread starter TRITON
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Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
OK but if it's an issue they don't take up much floor space - much like a pillar drill. Not very mobile though.
The Domino excels at mortise and tenon work but you are just as likely to use it for fitting K/D fittings to sheet goods. Here I think the Lamello Zeta excels, being neater and ( a bit ) cheaper to use. I use the Beadlock jig bought from Rockler in the US which makes mortises with a drill bit so the Zeta would be first on my shopping list if I had a spare £1200 or so.
Yes but you have the advantage of a commercial workshop with skilled people so making mortice and tennons is probably something you can do in your sleep and I doubt I could make one as good as one of your worst on one of your off days. I am one of those trying to offset a skills shortage by finding and buying a suitable tool, the 700 Domino with the FC tools alignment jig delivers what my Dowelmax can but faster most of the time and glueup is much easier.
Yes and we all know that there are no pockets in a shroud! If you don't spend and enjoy it then what was the point in working for it.
pe2dave
Established Member
Your logic is sound. Look for another target for your money.
I share your frustration with this, but it's not about the coin. The 700 can dig 14mm dowels up to 70mm into the wood (compared with max. 10mm dowels, 25mm deep). That needs a lot of power and rigidity, hence extra size and weight. Now you can buy a third party adaptor for the 700 that allows it to take the smaller cutters, but putting eg. a 5mm domino into small strip of wood with a 700 is so unwieldy that you lose the accuracy. And accuracy is the whole point of these tools.
Festool have also reported that the adaptors have caused the 700 to fail, because the smaller cutters require a much higher speed, among other things. Some users have expressed scepticism of this, but I believe them, coming from an engineering background where speeds & feeds, cutter length etc. have a significant effect on the life of a machine tool.
That is a load of dogs dangly bits, nothing more than a marketing ploy. The reason you could damage a 700 using the smaller 500 cutters is by exceeding the depth, something I keep an eye on when using the 6mm cutter in my 700. Why would a 6mm need a much higher speed than an 8mm?
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
Correction between 12mm and 28mm, unless using the 4mm cutter which is shorter.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
That is exactly my position. I bought the Makita Biscuit jointer first but then rapidly followed with the DF500. Wouldn't do without either.
As I said, 'among other things'. Festool have also mentioned different optimisations of the size/mass of cutters and how they affect the gearbox. Also, if you're using an extender, the runout at the tip of the cutter is likely to be greater than without the extender. If the extra runout is significant, this could really put extra pressure on the gearbox and cutter.
Regarding speed, it's not really about 6mm vs 8mm. I think The 500 takes 4-10mm cutters, while the 700 takes 8-14mm. So the optimisation would be the average of those two ranges: 7mm vs 11mm if my maths is correct. In reality, the speed isn't vastly different: 23,400 for the 500 vs 21,000 for the 700.
The risk of damage can be reduced by taking the precautions you've already mentioned, plus feeding in the tool gently and being sympathetic to the material you're working on (I use a lot of oak). Can you reduce the risk to zero? As I understand it, the first sign something is wrong is when the gearbox packs up completely. Until then it's difficult to quantify how much extra stress you're putting the machine under, as everything still works. I'm not saying the extender is not an option or I wouldn't have raised it, but I really don't think Festool's position of two separate models is all down to money/marketing.
Like I said, I believe Festool based on my background/experience, but others are sceptical, based on theirs. There's another thread that goes into more detail if the OP is interested:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/warning-about-using-seneca-adapter-with-xl700-domino.103109/
I stand corrected. The 500 has max 28mm depth, not 25mm as I originally stated. Still a big jump to 70mm though.
Unfortunately I cant spend all in the saving pot i collect for buying such niceties. Theres an ebike to get first, I'm hoping theres enough left over to get something to add to the woody collection. Ebike will be in the region of £4500-£5000. But if theres 700 left over then maybe I could stretch to a domino jointer, but for what it is, seems more a luxury than a necessity.clearly not that spendy a mood then
The 500 i think is too small, but sod if im going to pay a grand for a powertool., expecially as its way over the cost of other festool kit.
Same price as a Kapex ?. For me that shows how overpriced it is. Festool routers £600, sanders £350, the kapex as said just over 1100, then you get the equivalent of a different style biscuit jointer and its a grand.
Pricing just doesnt add up
monster
Established Member
£4.5k - £5k for a bike!- Sounds like the Festool of ebikes!
Aye well with bikes its very much a case of you get what you pay for and the minimum set iss really not a lot for the money
EG. A full sus bike is between £3K and X amount(4,5,6,8k)
But when you look at it component wise the 3K bike is really bottom of the range components. The brakes are minimum spec, bottom of the range shimano costing £30 an end retail, but move to a £5k and the brakes are £200 an end. Same goes with the spec of the sus bits, the shock and the fork. The 3-3500 bike sus units are retail £150-£200 a piece, but again spend a bit more like 4500-4800 and the fork retails at a grand, the shock £400, the other parts are high end so bang for buck, the more expensive bike breaks down to a sum of parts that seems more about quality than profit.
As a cyclist of some 30 years who has built most of his own bikes, i know the cost and quality of everything, and couldnt face owning an expensive bike where the components are a pile of dung, quality wise or not really fit for purpose- in my humble opinion.
EG. A full sus bike is between £3K and X amount(4,5,6,8k)
But when you look at it component wise the 3K bike is really bottom of the range components. The brakes are minimum spec, bottom of the range shimano costing £30 an end retail, but move to a £5k and the brakes are £200 an end. Same goes with the spec of the sus bits, the shock and the fork. The 3-3500 bike sus units are retail £150-£200 a piece, but again spend a bit more like 4500-4800 and the fork retails at a grand, the shock £400, the other parts are high end so bang for buck, the more expensive bike breaks down to a sum of parts that seems more about quality than profit.
As a cyclist of some 30 years who has built most of his own bikes, i know the cost and quality of everything, and couldnt face owning an expensive bike where the components are a pile of dung, quality wise or not really fit for purpose- in my humble opinion.
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
Your value system is interesting. You are willing to spend quite a lot on an item that’s going to depreciate fast, but not on an item that has very little, to zero, depreciation.Pricing just doesnt add up
I suggest that you really should try out the domino, I know there are a few places where you can return it within 30 days (though maybe that’s USA only) or you may have someone local who can lend you one.
There are lots of reports of people who, once they got a domino, almost never used their biscuit jointer.
I don’t know where I could use a biscuit that I can’t use a domino, but quite a few joints that work with a domino that don’t work with biscuits.
The ebike ill use every day, or 5 out of 7, with some trips to the shops and back, while others are a days ride in the hills. The domino is likely a few times maybe 1/2 dozen times in a year.
As to depreciation, well thats a given to some degree, but its maybe not as bad as you think.
The bike for me is as necessary as a car, as I dontr drive, so i cant look at it with depreciation in mind. It's a means to an end, and ive a few small health niggles that mean riding is the only transport i can safely use. I've an issue with the right side tendon, but it cant be fixed, and if it snaps, due to reduced blood flow i risk losing the leg. So i need something that makes cycling easier.
But dont think that cycling is a strain on the tendon,it actually isnt and for example there i can walk 30m before the pain starts to ramp up, but i can cycle for miles and miles without any pain.
Distinterior
Established Member
£4500 to £50000 on a push/electric bike...???!!!
Blimey,!....You live on a different planet to me.
Blimey,!....You live on a different planet to me.
JobandKnock
Amateur curmudgeon
No, but they are hardly portable, they don't really work on sheet stock (especially in the middle of a panel) and they do sort of require a shop...
I have both, plus a few other Festool tools, since buying them I really haven't used my biscuit jointer much. But then I don't use the Dominos much, either. Where they have been real time savers is in jobs like refurbishing sash windows and frame and panel doors, installing handrails, plus the occasional batch of window reveals and the like, window shutters, etc. The sort of jobs where going back to the workshop would be great - if only there was enough time.
Being one of life's cheapskates I begrudge Festoolthe cost of the Domino "dowels" and make my own from scrap
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