Mortiser or Domino

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Adam W.

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Firstly, what dont you like? I dont have one, so this is interesting to me.
Secondly, you could flog it, they fetch high prices 2nd hand
I don't like that it cost me a shed of money and that I don't really have a need for it. I suppose I could sell it, but then if I sell it, I'll need it for that once every two years job like making student shelves for the juniors.
 

JobandKnock

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I suppose I could sell it, but then if I sell it, I'll need it for that once every two years job like making student shelves for the juniors.
Yeah, but when you think about it that's a job which could equally well be done with a biscuit jointer, dowels or even just carcase screws
 

mg123

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Let's add another contender to compete with these two. I have just seen the video for the Pantorouter, for M&T's it looks like it can produce any size or shape of tenon and mortice for it to insert into but it can also do a lot more. This means it may be more cost effective because it can do more than just a loose tenon or only a mortice, ie dovetails. Not a cheap tool but looks like it can knock out joints fairly quickly and probably can do a lot more. The base package is £1340 which comparing to a Domino 500 at £1030 including box of domino's or the 700 at £1180 including box of domino's. Ok it is a workshop tool and not really portable but it also does not require buying the Domino's. It would be nice to see one in use at a woodworking show, we can but hope for 2022.


a video

Now that looks like a decent bit of kit, would be good to find an owner/user for first hand experience
 

Jacob

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Despite Beech being a hardwearing timber it is classed as non durable .......
Woodworm love it. They'll take it out neatly and leave the other stuff alone.
I had a domino briefly but it seemed a lot of money for a hand held morticer which wouldn't do long ones, or square ends, only a few sizes and so on. Very limited.
I found having to call the box a "systainer" annoying too - like being initiated into a daft club!
 
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ChrisMa

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making one big tenon taking minimum material off is not the same as a tenoner. also making a big mortice to suit would be a better test having to remove considerable material at depth.
I'm not slagging it off just saying it's not a morticer or a tenoner for larger work. years ago when I first had my fmt I made a garden gate with quad tenons. extremely strong but not what that machine excelled at tbh.

Hi Johnny,

I was addressing your comparision of the Pantorouter with the Domino. I would say the Pantorouter can do all that the Domino can ... and more. But it's not as portable as a Domino. The Domino has limited application, an expensive one trick pony really.

As to the comparision with a Mortiser (my preferred method), I would say the Pantorouter would at least match a 1" Mortiser for speed and accuracy, if the Pantorouter was fitted with a larger cutter.

As you say, a Tenoner would probably be quickest for large tenoning work, but has limited utility beyond that compared to the versitility of a Pantorouter (box joints, dovetails, dowel joints, inlay, etc). Looks a good tool to me.
 

johnnyb

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I can only compare it with the fmt which it's a more versatile version of . but the router motor on both is not up to making big stuff regularly. it's just a 1/2 inch router with all the foibles that that brings. the fmt is amazing at making shortish single tenons and mortices. especially at angles. chatter at depth can be the deciding factor here. my tenoner is 4.4kw combined and I still wouldn't do a door tenon in one pass.
the panto seems more versatile as the guiding system is more versatile.
the big domino would plunge its full depth admittedly fixed tenon size regularly and accurately(with good extraction. regular new cutters would be needed
 

Yojevol

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Hi @Rob D . I think you should consider this one

s-l1600.jpg


Should come within your budget

Brian:mad:
 

johnnyb

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having messed about with domino strength. the key is the quality and perfect sizing of domino's combined with quality waterproof glue. the overall tenon size 14mm thick max is fine in shear levering tends to break the rail and stile out. domino's are strong. fmt joints are similar but I prefer fmt as I like the process.(on smaller stuff)
 

JobandKnock

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I had a domino briefly but it seemed a lot of money for a hand held morticer which wouldn't do long ones, or square ends, only a few sizes and so on. Very limited.
You can move them sideways to make a wider 'ole y'know. Woodworkers on the Continent have used slot mortisers for a very long time - as have furniture makers/manufacturers here.

I found having to call the box a "systainer" annoying too - like being initiated into a daft club!
Maybe so, but if you ever go out on site being able to pick up several of those "daft" boxes clipped together in one hand while you take your hand tool tote in the other is a major plus, But you do have to buy into the "system" to benefit from it. Fortunately a few manufacturers other than Festool have, e.g. Hikoki, Metabo, Mafell, Lamello, Makita, Deros, etc, etc. It isn't all bad ;)

I wouldn't agree that it's a one trick pony - it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people at a lower cost than a mortiser and a tenoner. I'm the first to admit that it isn't for everyone, though
 

Jacob

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You can move them sideways to make a wider 'ole y'know. Woodworkers on the Continent have used slot mortisers for a very long time - as have furniture makers/manufacturers here.


Maybe so, but if you ever go out on site being able to pick up several of those "daft" boxes clipped together in one hand while you take your hand tool tote in the other is a major plus, But you do have to buy into the "system" to benefit from it. Fortunately a few manufacturers other than Festool have, e.g. Hikoki, Metabo, Mafell, Lamello, Makita, Deros, etc, etc. It isn't all bad ;)

I wouldn't agree that it's a one trick pony - it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people at a lower cost than a mortiser and a tenoner. I'm the first to admit that it isn't for everyone, though
When I was hard at it (some years ago now :unsure:) in one session I'd be making say 4 sash windows and one panel door - involving 100s of components and even more M&Ts. As I understand it the Domino is a hand held tool so I'd be moving it 1000s of times as well as moving the workpieces to get at them. The domino also doubles the number of mortices I need.
With a morticer I never move it at all and can very easily work my way through a huge stack of components - many of them having multiple mortices in one component sitting easily on the table. Quite a pleasant relaxing job with very little noise/dust and much of it done sitting down.
Also the morticer is always instantly available, whether it's for just one mortice or several 100.
Or have I missed something?
PS I do tenons on the band saw - fairly gentle work again as long as it is cutting well and carefully set up. I did wonder about making my own loose tenons like the dominos but its a weaker joint and doubles the number of mortices you need. Is useful sometimes though.

My morticer. Poolwood Equipment , some sort of far eastern import. 3phase. Very quiet. Can take stuff from matchbox size to big joist.
morticer1.jpg
morticer2.jpg
 
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Spectric

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you mentioned the Seneca adapter which I was planning on using but having looked into it I saw some info about it causing problems with the gearbox on the 700 and also voiding the warranty
I like others are using this adaptor without any issues with our gearboxs, but without being to cynical think of the poor old festool salesman, he wants to sell you two Domino machines at great expense, it is not in his interest for you to find a workaround and just use the 700 and not buy the 500 as well. To be fair to Festool any tool can be damaged if misused or abused and fitting a cutter from the 500 onto the 700 means you must NEVER plunge more than the 500 can which is 20 to 25mm because then you run out of cutter and will bring the shoulder of the cutter into contact with the workpiece and this could cause damage, I would also suspect you could mimic this issue using a 700 cutter and no extraction, if the waste is not cleared then it has the potential to put undue strain on the mechanism but I am not suggesting anyone tries it to verify!
 

Spectric

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I can't stand the damn thing.
Yes I can understand your direction, Festool is a bit like Marmite. My big bug bear is that I know it is overpriced and could be improved but without competition due only to copyright it has stagnated in design. Now I just look at it as a tool that can do something that matches my skill levels and opens up more possibilities but I also think what would have been the outcome had I seen both the Domino and the Pantorouter at say Harrogate?
 

johnnyb

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sorry I mentioned it and didn't explain. I brought mine many years ago from an old guy on the Isle of scalpey. took forever yo arrive and was a bit complex. but over a year or 2 I got the hang of it and its very fast and really accurate. anything upto wardrobe doors its my first choice.
 

ChrisMa

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You can move them sideways to make a wider 'ole y'know. Woodworkers on the Continent have used slot mortisers for a very long time - as have furniture makers/manufacturers here.


Maybe so, but if you ever go out on site being able to pick up several of those "daft" boxes clipped together in one hand while you take your hand tool tote in the other is a major plus, But you do have to buy into the "system" to benefit from it. Fortunately a few manufacturers other than Festool have, e.g. Hikoki, Metabo, Mafell, Lamello, Makita, Deros, etc, etc. It isn't all bad ;)

I wouldn't agree that it's a one trick pony - it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people at a lower cost than a mortiser and a tenoner. I'm the first to admit that it isn't for everyone, though

My point about the Domino being a 'one trick pony' is that fact that it can only cut mortises .. nothing else.

It's a hugely expensive tool just to cut relatively small mortices.

Perhaps as a site tool it comes into it's own, but I just can't see the cost justification ( £1,000 + ) just to cut relatively small mortises in a workshop.
 

Jacob

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My point about the Domino being a 'one trick pony' is that fact that it can only cut mortises .. nothing else.

It's a hugely expensive tool just to cut relatively small mortices.

Perhaps as a site tool it comes into it's own, but I just can't see the cost justification ( £1,000 + ) just to cut relatively small mortises in a workshop.
Who cuts mortices on site? I don't think I ever have, except in emergencies! Mortice locks probably about it.
 

JobandKnock

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Who cuts mortices on site? I don't think I ever have, except in emergencies! Mortice locks probably about it.
You'd be surprised. One of the issues we have these days on interior fit-out work in particular it seems that the vast majority of people who make the stuff in workshops that we install have never worked on site (wher in older buildings in particular you find that the drawings are often just "representative"). The results are predictable: constant on-site modifications being required, sometimes whole structures needing to be broken down, modified and installed, stuff missed off delivery schedules (because the workshop was too busy - meaning we need to make stuff up on site), etc. I'm convinced that we have gone backwards since the 1980s, not forwards. I'd say that in general my Domino goes on site maybe 12 to 15 days a year - and whilst that isn't a lot, it often makes the difference between hitting a deadline and not. In the workshop, especially for shop and bar work where you are using a lot of sheet materials, Dominos seem to have more or less replaced biscuit jointers, possibly because they give you a more rigid joint form the off.

At home I work in an 8 x 6ft shed at the moment (I've set-up bigger cutting rooms in sites lots of times), so no space for a mortiser and the (portable) table saw gets used outside when weather permits. I know I'm not alone in that

So who does mortises on site? Actually some people do because they can't depend on workshops (and as I tend to work on multi million pound projects the workshops tend to be reasonably well equipped). Oh, and BTW on a well organised (new build) site the doors come out pre-hung these days (or we set-up a cutting area and do it ourselves - I use a Virutex lock mortiser for that - before the labourers load out for the fitters), it's only on bespokes or refurbs/listeds that we chop mortises in-situ nowadays, but that's a whole different can of worms
 

Spectric

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I'm convinced that we have gone backwards since the 1980s, not forwards.
Is that not because of the pressure to maximise profits by just getting it done? I knew a lot of people who would not work domestic sites because of the poor standards that became acceptable and this is reflected in the modern characterless boxes they call houses which are no more than glorified sheds and seem to be spreading like some bacteria across our countryside at an alarming rate and still fitted with gas boilers.
 

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